Air Disc verses Drum-brakes

Hallback said:

The best bet of advice for driving an AMT is it is to remember that you are not smarter than that computer and to allow it to do its thing. The sooner you learn that the easier your life will be

Click to expand...

That's true--But there is several modes built into the system. Full auto, performance, and manual.
When descending a long grade such as Cabbage, the best way is to brake the truck down using jake
at the top in manual mode downshifting to 7th or 8th gear leave it there running the jake at 2000
rpm. It will hold all the way to the bottom {6 miles of 6% at 38 to 40 mph-45 in 8th at 100,000 gvw
without touching the brakes}. And that's with a Cummins or Detroit.

Left in full auto mode it can down shift at points the will cause a engine overspeed {in the neighborhood
of 26 to 2,700 rpm which will void warranty} Anything over 2,300 can cause a void.

I don't know anything about AMTs except drivers hated the early ones. But in early days always thought Allisons were great for going uphill, just point the truck at a hill with the hammer down and the trans would pick the right gear and almost never do anything stupid like a car that can't decide what gear it wants and shifts back and forth.

Fast forward to the late 00s and we got a new crop of Allisons and they came programmed with a very dumb shift schedule, would upshift much too soon and never let the engine get to the top of the RPM band even if you wanted, very sluggish. The Allison dealer had a man with a laptop who would come out and reprogram, we had to have him do each truck that was bought, but once he was done, it was even better than the old ones. There is more to this story with graphs and charts but probably too boring to type here.

Another feature that they had was when lifting throttle with Jake on would call for 2nd gear and would downshift as soon as engine RPM would allow, also turn the fan on. That was useless, Jake was already quite good enough by itself without excess RPM and fan was just unnecessary, especially these overdriven fans that came on the emissions trucks. Just because you lift your foot does not mean you want to come to a complete stop immediately, the effect of this programming was to make drivers switch off the Jake.

Birken Vogt said:

Also, if it gets bad enough, some new company like a Hayes or Pacific will appear and make simple trucks again and they might sell pretty good. The electronic engines are pretty well understood at this point. But most people know that the electronic air conditioner and window regulator and dome light are just unnecessary and worthless, and there is money to be made in that segment if somebody chooses to open that segment.

Click to expand...

I wish it could work this way but there isnt many guys that can buy a new truck that would buy this kind of a truck i would and some older guys would but most would want the computer operated windows and Ac thinking that its must be better. Then they would some how have to jack the price up on a plain truck to were it cost twice as much.
A good example of this is how many time have you seen last years car,truck or some tools being sold cheap because every one wants the latest and greatest.

Birken Vogt said:

you lift your foot does not mean you want to come to a complete stop immediately,

Click to expand...

That's why there is a two and three position jake switch. A 32" fan will use 20 hp
easy at 2000 rpm. But Jakes are designed and work best at the top governed rpm.

There is a demand for non egr engines and the OEM support for them might go away, but quality aftermarket support will see a demand and rise up to help.

I've seen companies **** away thousands for repairs on 2008+ engines. I'll keep my old engines and I'll always find a way to keep them running, and people like me are growing, just not growing as much as the guys buying disc brakes unfortunately.

When the Glider Kits became popular it cleaned salvage yards of years of old core
engines. And many of those required major last ditch machine work to become
usable. A major salvage yard near me has seen a decline in good cores. And the
aftermarket knows the oem's are dropping support so aftermarket will be as
expensive as oem, just because they can.

I have plenty of clients looking for anything having to do with old Komatsu parts. On twenty five year old engines, there is little parts support and no cores anywhere. Even many of Komatsu's machines are in the same boat. EPA shut down the manufacture of older model engines starting at Tier 1 and moving to Tier 2. If the manufacturers stop producing parts for the old stuff, you can certainly bet that those manufacturers will move to make sure there is little or no aftermarket manufacturers of new parts and components for trucks and machines that put out the any non complying smoke. Good used stuff will always be around. It's just that you are not going to be able to buy something from the time before emissions limits and expect to be able to make money with it.

Truck Shop said:

I agree BV, but the supply chain has changed and so has scrap yard values. It's not uncommon to see
a price tag on a running take out B model Cat 400 at 13,000 plus. Because a yard is always going to charge
50% plus of oem rebuilt. As far as any new companies stepping in that will take some serious cash, and
not many investors with mounds of money want to invest in a new vehicle company. Takes too long
to see a return on investment.

Click to expand...

My buddy just got a quote on a rebuilt C-15 from a truck dealer 46K and 20K core so 66K.
The customer wants to replace a 3406 in an older log truck bet that's not going to happen.
Son priced a platinum kit for a C-15 at 35K.
Bad Bob

Truck Shop said:

Truck driver of yesteryear and today. What Happened?
View attachment 265755

Click to expand...

Fast food & truck stops. ... Yesteryear ... every man brought a lunch bucket from home.

Yesteryear, the truck drivers didn't spend three weeks or more on the road. A lunch box now likely only carries some paperwork and a wallet.

Fast food at every small town and the herders stop like clockwork.

Truck Shop said:

That's why there is a two and three position jake switch. A 32" fan will use 20 hp
easy at 2000 rpm. But Jakes are designed and work best at the top governed rpm.

Click to expand...

These dumb things were programmed to call for 2nd gear no matter what position the Jake was in. You could get it reprogrammed to stay in whatever gear it was in, but talking to the dealer to explain what you wanted you had to say it 4 times. It's like they did not understand at all, "you mean you want the Jake to come on without downshifting at all?" Yes I want to have control. If I want it to downshift then the buttons are still there. But going down a 6% at 65 mph you only needed Jakes on high at 1600 RPM, no need to downshift to maintain speed on that grade, the Jake works good enough by itself. Also the fan has its own switch if I want it to come on but the Jakes are strong enough by themselves.

When a driver shows up to head out-it takes him a minimum of a 1/2 hour to load all his stuff.
Food, clothes, bedding what ever.

When I drove it was a bag with 7 pairs of under ware {incase you crapped 4}, 7 tee shirts, 7 pairs of
socks, 3 pairs of jeans. Ate once a day, eat too much and you get sleepy. But there were regular
restaurants in those days too-not the crap of today. Some had areas that were for drivers only.
I had regular stops for food-didn't eat gut bombs.
Made my first trip to LA in 1978. Drove 11 western states and British Columbia, now and then would
cross the border to Tijuana with apples. Hauled a lot of produce out of Nogales but mostly out of
the SJ valley in Cali. Drove a 78 352 Pete 400 Cum and a 81 K100 110 cab with 400 Cat.
Chased produce up and down the west coast. Usually gone 4 to 5 days. Delivered to Lucky, Safeway,
Albertsons, United Grocers, Raley's. In Canada it was Tom Yee, McDonalds, Oppenheimer.
Never wore dirty clothes with food splatters, Never wore biker shirts or doo rags, dressed like I
knew what I was doing weather I did or not. And kept my face shaved.

I felt I had better luck with shippers and receivers looking decent.

Bluox said:

My buddy just got a quote on a rebuilt C-15 from a truck dealer 46K and 20K core so 66K.
The customer wants to replace a 3406 in an older log truck bet that's not going to happen.
Son priced a platinum kit for a C-15 at 35K.
Bad Bob

Click to expand...

Just this week and the only one that's done it, DD15 broke a crank in Jerome Id. 51K covered on warranty.
340,000 miles on it.

hosspuller said:

Fast food & truck stops. ... Yesteryear ... every man brought a lunch bucket from home.

Click to expand...

Yesteryear---No power steering {not until 60's}, No A/C, Most with twin sticks {4x3, 4x4, 5x4} air shift
wasn't common till mid 60's, No air ride anything including seat-wasn't common till late 60's, air wipers,
Cab heat was poor, No radial tires-split rims with bias tires, No jakes or engine retarders {jakes didn't
come along till 1962}. No air dryers {you drained the tanks daily}. No sound deadener/insulation--
most sounded like two skeletons facking on a tin roof. No cell phones {you broke down you took
care of it. No fridge, no tv's, no sound systems. If you had 220 to 335 hp you were a big strapper
plus still made 500 miles in a day and more. No heated mirrors {that didn't happen till early 70's}.

Drove or worked on a number of those beasts. Mack was a holdout for PS for a LONG time.

I drove a '67 3/4 chevy for years back and forth to work. You learn to steer while moving. And don't get your hands tangled up in the wheel when she's coming back around straight. Just let it spin.

I cringe every time I see one of my guys cranking around on the steering while setting still. Most of all our stuff is 20k on the fronts and its hard on steers on shot rock or pavement.

Guys in training used to make fun of me for my constant yelling about not turning the wheel when it isn't moving. I said I don't care how slow you are moving, just be moving a little bit! Tears up the pavement on a hot day, also.

To both of those reply's--Had anyone ever drove a truck with center point steering they would figure
it out. The real problem with dry steering is the stress loaded to the frame where steering box
is attached. It will load the frame with twisting the rail. Rarely does the right rail ever crack, 90% of
the time it's the left unless it has right hand steering.

I still fight that, highway guys always want to crank the wheel sitting still. In a damp plowed field, that can be the difference in driving out and being pulled.