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This will be an interesting thread moving forward......

Vetech63

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
6,361
Location
Oklahoma
I was on this 672D blade yesterday. The engine dropped the accessory drive belt due to a bearing failure on the a/c compressor. I got the compressor changed out and the new belt on it........then I started to get out my vac pump and gauges. The job super looked at me weird and said, "Are you going to charge that?" Well yeah! He said that he had told HNC multiple times about the a/c not working and he never did anything about it. I'm positive HNC wouldn't know how to hook up the gauges or anything else about a/c. I get the system vacced down and leak checked and start searching for the hi/low switch in the system.............I can't find it anywhere, but I know it has one. I look for 30 minutes and no find...........so I message our resident Deere God and ask him where the hell this switch is. He tells me its under the seat! WTF......who designed that!? Then he says, "Enjoy
getting that seat out!" LMAO......o_O:eek: Whoever decided that switch needed to be under the seat in a no access area should be fired immediately. :D;) I got what I was after............
AC1.jpg
AC2.jpg
I thought 45 degrees was pretty good since I couldn't find a cab recirc and it was 97-degree temp outside.:confused:
 

Vetech63

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
6,361
Location
Oklahoma
There has been a Bomag BW211 sitting in the back of the yard for 2 months now. The Bomag/Deere dealer called me today and said that the module/monitor HNC ordered in in. I walked back there to look at the machine and figured out that the water in fuel sensor was active and the engine will shut off in 2 minutes, which is set in the module. I checked for water at the sensor and found none. I unplugged the sensor, same problem. I unplugged the wiring for it at the control panel, same problem.
So, I'm getting ready to get off the machine and when I step on the first step that is welded on the control panel, the door shifts a bit..........and the sensor light and alarm stop. It was a bad ground. I hope I can return that monitor! I'm sure it was several thousand dollars.......I'll find out tomorrow.
 

1466IH

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
613
Location
prairie du rocher, il
Just got done with a BW211 last week. I know the park brake switch is $260ish so I can only imagine what a board cost. My current situation... Just glad this little truck has an electric crane on it. 6.4 ate a couple push tubes and rockers. New Jesel roller rockers and tubes were ordered today. Have 2 more deere engines behind 963 torn all the way down waiting on parts and just got word another 6068 deere coming in tomorrow. And 3126 out of crawler is getting pulled down this evening. Hasn't held oil pressure for over a year so they just kept adding Lucas but they finally brought it down when it started getting compression in radiator. IMG_20220810_184942.jpgIMG_20220810_184953.jpg
 

Vetech63

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
6,361
Location
Oklahoma
I'm putting another customers JCB cylinder stuff here to show what we all have to deal with sometimes. The customer had a bad cylinder drift problem on their fork tilt circuit. They told me they thought it was a control valve problem since they had all the cylinders on the machine rebuilt 3 months ago. The fork cylinders failed a leak test, so I pulled them apart.
JCB old piston seal.jpg
I knew this wasn't a JCB piston seal as soon as I saw it. The seal is flat and is the same height as the guide ring. It didn't seal worth a dam hence the drift. I installed a JCB kit and you can see the obvious difference.
JCB new seal.jpg
The piston fits snug inside the cylinder barrel with the right seal. Whoever rebuilt his cylinders did a half ass match up and didn't even put new seals in the glands.
JCB expanders.jpg
The oring on the bottom was what I pulled out that was used as an expander. The top expander is the JCB OEM. ALOT of difference. Just because you rebuilt a cylinder doesn't mean it's not still a problem. This cured 95% of the drift problem by itself. I try to always check a drift problem by starting with cylinder tests.......even if you may have just rebuilt it yourself or had someone else do it.
 

Jimbo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
98
Location
S.E. New Mexico
Hopefully the owners he works for have the experience or imagination to understand what it is he is trying to show them.
Not all owners have any mechanical experience or ability at all.
 

suladas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
1,731
Location
Canada
Why would anyone rebuild a cylinder without OEM seals? Saving $20 is not worth it in a part like that. IIRC I paid about $50 for each cylinder when I did 2 on my CTL, and that was at John Deere. The part that baffled me was shops were telling me $1000 each to rebuild, I said screw it and tore them apart, first one took me probably 4-5 hours as i've never touched one before, the second about 2 hours and haven't had a drifting problem since. I was pissed after the fact though, how could a shop justify charging $1900 in labour for maybe 2-3 hours work? The price was based off of only doing seals, any machining, etc would be more, I get you're paying for their experience but that's just gouging.
 

Junkyard

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
3,621
Location
Claremore, OK
Occupation
Field Mechanic
I’ve heard cylinder shops base their rates on the percentage of the cost for a new cylinder. That rate seems high to me as well. We’ve had elevating and crowd cylinders honed and resealed for less than that.

I often have to source seals other than OEM and don’t have an issue. They get them somewhere too. It’s replacing with the proper piece. If I get into a cylinder that’s old and seals are junk I will use OEM simply because I don’t have anything left to match or measure.
 

John C.

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
12,865
Location
Northwest
Occupation
Machinery & Equipment Appraiser
I've never worked at a place that charged cylinder work by anything other that hourly labor. Cylinder benches are a capital investment and are depreciated over time, usually seven years. Cylinder benches also last significantly more than seven years. One has to also remember that cylinders are not a cut and dry rebuild. Breaking down a cylinder at times is like unraveling a Gordian knot. Stuck glands and piston nuts, broken snubbers and getting the right packings have no book times. A thorough check of the barrel for damage and swelling plus checking the rod for being straight also takes time.

The other thought about costs to do something is that everyone is free to shop around. If all the shops charge the same way you might think there is collusion in the market but then you would have to find a way to prove that. It might be that they are all just trying to stay in business.
 

Bluox

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
1,960
Location
WA state
I still do some commercial work and the last 2 big cylinders I did went to the hyd. shop came back at 26K apiece.
they were 16 and 18 feet long and needed new rods.
I use a hyd shop for their warranty and parts and quick turnaround.
I get a tested complete cylinder ready to put on that I don't have to worry about.
Bad Bob
 

Truck Shop

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
16,535
Location
WWW.
At one time there was a real good hydraulic shop here in town. good work
and fare price. It wasn't worth doing a DIY at that time. One good shop left
in Dayton, but it's worth the drive to have them do the work.
 

suladas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
1,731
Location
Canada
Many shops price repairs so their overhead gets paid for. The hydraulic table to break and torque gland nuts on rod pistons are pricey.

It was a small CTL cylinder, it didn't have a gland nut to torque. I didn't spend a penny on a special tool to rebuild it, and 2 years later both still working fine so I obviously did a ok job.
 

suladas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
1,731
Location
Canada
I’ve heard cylinder shops base their rates on the percentage of the cost for a new cylinder. That rate seems high to me as well. We’ve had elevating and crowd cylinders honed and resealed for less than that.

I often have to source seals other than OEM and don’t have an issue. They get them somewhere too. It’s replacing with the proper piece. If I get into a cylinder that’s old and seals are junk I will use OEM simply because I don’t have anything left to match or measure.

New cylinder was $2000. If you're experienced enough to see if the seals are quality then sure, but otherwise going with OEM is a no brainer.
 

suladas

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
1,731
Location
Canada
I've never worked at a place that charged cylinder work by anything other that hourly labor. Cylinder benches are a capital investment and are depreciated over time, usually seven years. Cylinder benches also last significantly more than seven years. One has to also remember that cylinders are not a cut and dry rebuild. Breaking down a cylinder at times is like unraveling a Gordian knot. Stuck glands and piston nuts, broken snubbers and getting the right packings have no book times. A thorough check of the barrel for damage and swelling plus checking the rod for being straight also takes time.

The other thought about costs to do something is that everyone is free to shop around. If all the shops charge the same way you might think there is collusion in the market but then you would have to find a way to prove that. It might be that they are all just trying to stay in business.

Not sure how they charged it, it wasn't an exact price but told it would be right around there and that was enough for me to say nope. I called two different shops and both said the exact same $1000.

Some jobs I price a certain way because I know others do and I almost feel guilty invoicing because of how much money i'm making so I do get it. If they want to charge that they can by all means, they just won't get my money because i'll do it myself.
 
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