Large Dozer costs

StevenG said:

5 min vid on chain clearing for elk habitat in Kentucky.

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They need a bigger/heavier chain!

Then they will also have to have larger dozers.

That is another form of investment. Big chain and big dozer x2, but it knocks more stuff down faster for sure.

With the right person in the seat, no muddy soft ground, no huge steep hills, and a large D375 or D10 size dozer with a good heavy clearing rake not pin on junk, you need a rake if you want clean stuff to burn and not piles of buried trash. Even a good clearing guy with a U or straight blade has to step up the game to keep the trash clean, I don't think many can do quality clearing and cleaning the debris with a dozer nowadays. In this area it is very important because no burning allowed, only chippers that demand spotless clearing trash and split stumps.

Excavators took over the bulk of that work around here years ago.

Compared to a dozer even 3 excavators are dead slow for main clearing machines. They are great for swampy areas and perimeter clearing, it would take a huge excavator with a dedicated stump splitter as well.
If its just a few small lots to clear excavator is fine. Large acres no way. But depends on how fast you wish to do the job. I think the reason many choose excavators is like I said not many can use a dozer anymore for clearing. Most of the newer machines can be kind of awkward in a clearing situation.

Sparkiefarmer said:

The plan is to pull drainage tile in the summer and push bush in the winter. Will be hiring the easy part of the job done, as it will be the most dollars out of pocket but also get the most productive land ready right now.
Have you ever seen anyone use the anchor chain method in our conditions?

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If you are trying to produce high grade cropping land the stumps will have to be removed . Thats best done with the tree weight helping , if you shear off the stems the stumps will still need removing requiring a rework . I don't know what variety of willow and popular you have , taking off the stem does not kill the stump on the different types we have . It would be time consuming to go over the area to de stump it . What I have done and are doing is the cheapest way it can be done . On a neighbors place they went for a better finish , good enough for grain crops if it was not so steep . Cost several time's mine and with the gorse seeds in the ground not much better than my place through the fence . The scale of what you want to do has been done in NZ turning logged over and ten year or so pines into high quality dairy farm land , as good a finish as you want . Your job is not a one dozer job and its not a 4-6 thousand hour job to complete it . It may be able to be pushed into windrows for that . Some of the rakes from the pine conversion are still for sale . They looked very impressive when on their dozers few years back when the dozers were sold .

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketp...achinery/parts-attachments/listing/3432662750

I agree depreciation/etc is a factor. Going used (but how “used”) has advantages...and if course size to knock it all down in one stroke, is the dream.

I think you’re gonna do better treating this like the Sherman tank theory...throw a sh$t load of them at it, something’s gonna give/move.

maybe consider going “down” to a D6; but get three! Two to work as a team, one with a rake, one with a blade...maybe a chain between the two?? The third D6 is to pull around the mobile workshop and fuel caddy. Then when one craps out, swap in the third one, and put the mobile shop next to the broken one. Could even have spare trans, tracks, fuses, oils, bolts...knowing the forestry guys never shut their machines off in the winter, you might as well run three shifts to keep the tanks moving!!! LED light the sh$t out of of them and work around the clock. Each should have full GPS/comm set-up...Establish your property perimeter...then begin a grid approach...likely would/could scale it to include two more teams (9 D6’s in total).
Then as you begin to reach then end of your grid/develop, you begin to shed your equipment one team at a time

might allow you to buy used equipment with 2000 hours on it, then you dump it when it hits 6-7k (or 5000 hours to avoid BS??)...likely you’ll need a rotation of machines over the course of a few years so pick a machine that was produced in (very) high numbers

But, nothing worse than not selling a piece of equipment you’d like to see gone (aka, need the $$ in ur pocket). Maybe someone here has the production stats of D6, 7’s, 8’s to see what cat makes more of??

I don’t know...sometimes more equipment equals more headaches...but a small nimble team can move VERY fast when firing on all cylinders. Maybe “just” two teams (6 D6’s in total) can handle the work given all the weather BS you/we(!) are likely to face...

project sounds amazing...

One outfit I know of, always had plenty of extra machines on the job site. But then none of it was new stuff, so when one went down there was always a machine to jump on and go to work with.
Yeah kept the mechanics very busy, I bet it was still more cost effective than either huge payments on newish machines or high rental rates.

Which company are you talking about. I've worked on many of the machines for many of the clearing contractors for more than ten years. Most used four or more excavators, maybe one or two dozers and at least one grinder.

when we cleared right of way for highway 3 out by Bangor/Poulsbo, Scarsella ran an 8H with a brush rake for the majority, and all I did with the clapped-out 225 excavator was the really wet or steeps stuff, and burn all the fires. The D8 operator was great at making clean fires for me. I walked up 5 miles of highway with a couple of fans, and did the up-and-back between about 3 piles as I marched along.

Here's one if you are still contemplating buying used https://www.machinerytrader.com/listing/for-sale/26553123/1995-caterpillar-d8n-crawler-dozers If it's an accurate description, it should go the hours you mention without out major component issues. It's relatively close to you so the transport cost would be on the lower scale too.

D5Dan said:

Ithink you’re gonna do better treating this like the Sherman tank theory...throw a sh$t load of them at it, something’s gonna give/move.

maybe consider going “down” to a D6; but get three! Two to work as a team, one with a rake, one with a blade...maybe a chain between the two?? The third D6 is to pull around the mobile workshop and fuel caddy. Then when one craps out, swap in the third one, and put the mobile shop next to the broken one. Could even have spare trans, tracks, fuses, oils, bolts...knowing the forestry guys never shut their machines off in the winter, you might as well run three shifts to keep the tanks moving!!! LED light the sh$t out of of them and work around the clock. Each should have full GPS/comm set-up...Establish your property perimeter...then begin a grid approach...likely would/could scale it to include two more teams (9 D6’s in total).
Then as you begin to reach then end of your grid/develop, you begin to shed your equipment one team at a time

might allow you to buy used equipment with 2000 hours on it, then you dump it when it hits 6-7k (or 5000 hours to avoid BS??)...likely you’ll need a rotation of machines over the course of a few years so pick a machine that was produced in (very) high numbers

But, nothing worse than not selling a piece of equipment you’d like to see gone (aka, need the $$ in ur pocket). Maybe someone here has the production stats of D6, 7’s, 8’s to see what cat makes more of??

I don’t know...sometimes more equipment equals more headaches...but a small nimble team can move VERY fast when firing on all cylinders. Maybe “just” two teams (6 D6’s in total) can handle the work given all the weather BS you/we(!) are likely to face...

project sounds amazing...

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I like your thinking, I do notice a big jump in price and drop in availability in the 8 size class; but a D6 will hardly budge a drainage plow, a 7 might in ideal conditions but if conditions were ideal we wouldnt need drainage tile haha. 3 shifts in the winter is a serious consideration, as a lifelong resident of Ontario I'm seriously concerned about starting something thats parked in a bush in -30 or -40 conditions. I havent bought this property yet, still running numbers and dealing with banks. The first of the project will be hired out to get the "best" land in production immediately, then pick away at the remainder with my own fleet as the budget allows. Still havent pinned down a number for big dozer maintenance.... I can only find 4 people locally who have owned one and they didnt use them enough to wear them. It does seem like I'm going to have to bite the bullet at get a pricey low houred unit if i want reliability.

A person is not going to want an old 1970's to 1980's, D8 or D9 to do major work with. Parts availability and just plain metal fatigue etc. its similar to an old car or truck you either need to completely ground up rebuild it, or plan on spending some months out of the work schedule to fix stuff that breaks and hope you can find the parts. To own old stuff you either have to love working on it, or have deep pockets for a few good mechanics to be on call.
Big job you have?
Like R. G. LeTourneau said the jobs aren't too big the machines are too small.
If the ground supports bigger machines and you need to get the job done fast, you need a big machine.

chidog said:

A person is not going to want an old 1970's to 1980's, D8 or D9 to do major work with. Parts availability and just plain metal fatigue etc. its similar to an old car or truck you either need to completely ground up rebuild it, or plan on spending some months out of the work schedule to fix stuff that breaks and hope you can find the parts. To own old stuff you either have to love working on it, or have deep pockets for a few good mechanics to be on call.
Big job you have?
Like R. G. LeTourneau said the jobs aren't too big the machines are too small.
If the ground supports bigger machines and you need to get the job done fast, you need a big machine.

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I have had wonderful luck with my D8K, D9h, Clearing trees and stumps with KG and V/Cutter blades just bought a d9t tier 4 machine certified rebuild and its down with emission codes.

I like that old stuff. And have dealt with many expensive problems with them too. There are so many things that can go wrong with the D342 engines (still say they are great though), and then there are the massively fatigue cracked main frames that some can have. Cracking from the equalizer crossmember to the large sections at the bevel gear case, and then the good old rear ripper - winch mounting plate.

An amusing anecdote. My 46a had a crack at the side rail by the hard-bar crossmember so i pulled out my trusty air-arc to gouge it out before welding. It was a tight spot to get into and i wedged myself up to be able to see what i was doing. I accidentally touched an oil cooler line with the backend of the rod and it blew a hole through it. It doused me with a significant amount of oil before i could get the hell out of there. So after welding the crack i had to pull the cooler line off to weld up the hole i had created

56wrench said:

An amusing anecdote. My 46a had a crack at the side rail by the hard-bar crossmember so i pulled out my trusty air-arc to gouge it out before welding. It was a tight spot to get into and i wedged myself up to be able to see what i was doing. I accidentally touched an oil cooler line with the backend of the rod and it blew a hole through it. It doused me with a significant amount of oil before i could get the hell out of there. So after welding the crack i had to pull the cooler line off to weld up the hole i had created

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Ahhhhh, good times..lol

56wrench said:

An amusing anecdote. My 46a had a crack at the side rail by the hard-bar crossmember so i pulled out my trusty air-arc to gouge it out before welding. It was a tight spot to get into and i wedged myself up to be able to see what i was doing. I accidentally touched an oil cooler line with the backend of the rod and it blew a hole through it. It doused me with a significant amount of oil before i could get the hell out of there. So after welding the crack i had to pull the cooler line off to weld up the hole i had created

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Ahh the inadvertent strike of the arc.
Mine was patching up 2" pipe that was used for a water jet ring on a suction dredge, cleaning up a hazmat site. Somebody ( not me !) thought they could get clean enough water out of the dredge discharge to power that ring of pipe with little holes drilled in it. They were tired of fueling up the Honda pump, I guess.
All those little holes plugged right up with the dirty water. I had to cut some windows in it to get the pipe cleaned out, and then I tie-wired the patches back on and welded them up.
All of this was sitting in an aluminum boat by the dock, with the hood lifted up as high at the dredge could do. I finished off a rod and tossed the butt, then laid my hand down across my lap.
I learned that I had picked up a nub of that tie wire. The good news was the path to ground was direct, through my thigh and into the aluminum seat. The bad news was I was quite wet with salt water and I got a good jolt. My leg was sore for days.