Excavator versus Crawler (Bulldozer) Pros & Cons

I have a compact excavator that weighs in at 12,700 pounds. I have been using it to create roads and walking trails on my very hilly, 18 acre property. I love the excavator because it's versatile: I can remove heavy scrub brush without removing too much topsoil. I can trench. I can take down trees, say 60 foot oaks, that are 2 feet in diameter digging out roots and pushing these over. I can also reach all areas of my property driving on the asphalt roads without much damage since I have rubber tracks. I can grade by back dragging with the blade in a float position. I'm wondering if a dozer makes more sense for long-term maintenance of my these roads after I create them? Maybe a JD450 that weighs in around 18k pounds with a 6-way blade would be easier and faster for road maintenance. I'm thinking that a dozer, unless very large and heavy, actually couldn't have done what I have done with an excavator. I have no experience with dozers but I think a really big, heavy machine is needed to knock down a tree and even then you likely need to attack the tree from multiple sides to tear out some roots first. I'm curious about how dozers and excavators are used together. I know guys on this site have experience with and own both. I'd appreciate any thoughts that you might share. Note: I also own a compact tractor loader/backhoe...but this rig is too light for scraping roads; the backhoe attachment with only 2k pounds of break-force can't play the road building game. I use this rig for mowing, mulching, landscaping and some small ditching projects close to the house. Best, Allan

if you get it built right you can maintain it with a tractor and a blade. A dozer can take down some pretty big trees after cutting a root or two on the push side first.

If you like the excavator, stick with the excavator. If you think your compact is too small, get a mid size tractor, like 80-120HP with a good three point blade and driveway drag. In the right conditions, a drag will do a light rework on a driveway almost as good and fast as a grader.

The title to the thread is akin to asking the question - "Which one is a better an apple or an orange" as the two are very different machines.

Do you need to get rid of the mini-ex after your projects are done? If not an inexpensive farm tractor with blade/drag like SkyKing said can maintain the roads if they are built right then you have the mini for other projects.

I like having a mini around as they are extremely useful for a lot of things however maintaining a gravel road is not the best use of one.

The OP's ex is also on the big end of mini. It is amazing what you can do with those bigger machines. I like Delmer's idea of a bigger tractor and box scraper/3pt blade. You can scoot all over quickly, and tune up all sorts of stuff. If it is too gnarly walk the excavator down there and tame it. Really there is no need for a purchased dozer in the OP's scenario.

skyking1 said:

The OP's ex is also on the big end of mini. It is amazing what you can do with those bigger machines. I like Delmer's idea of a bigger tractor and box scraper/3pt blade. You can scoot all over quickly, and tune up all sorts of stuff. If it is too gnarly walk the excavator down there and tame it. Really there is no need for a purchased dozer in the OP's scenario.

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So, I really like the idea of a bigger tractor to couple with my compact excavator. What size and weight do I need to grade rocky roads? An 80-120hp tractor (that is significantly more powerful than what I have which is 25hp) is what Delmer recommended. Is it just HP or HP + weight that I need? And to CM1995's point about apples and oranges I agree. These machines are designed for different purposes--with some overlap. I think an excavator is more surgical in what you can do with it. A dozer is gross power and weight for moving a lot of material quickly. I did take down a 4' diameter old oak tree that shook the ground when it dropped with my compact excavator. I think it would take a fairly large dozer to do the same task.

They come together with a proper machine.
This might be a big piece of junk, but this kind of thing really kicks arse doing that kind of work.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/hvo/d/sunol-2006-john-deere-210-le/7514301810.html

85 hp and 9000 pounds. Rippers in the box.

Allan M said:

I did take down a 4' diameter old oak tree that shook the ground when it dropped with my compact excavator. I think it would take a fairly large dozer to do the same task.

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I could take the same sized tree down with one of our 279D's if time wasn't an issue.

CM1995 said:

279D

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Is that a 10k pound machine? My gut says that you have great skill to do that with a small dozer but the machine is really overmatched by the size of that tree. My point being that an excavator of less weight (say my 12.7k lb machine) can take down trees where a much heavier dozer is required for the same task--assuming the time to do so is about the same. Does that sound right?

Honestly, an svl97 would be the perfect fit to the ex. But i have a u48 and an svl75 and I find myself wanting a small dozer…

Allan M said:

Is that a 10k pound machine? My gut says that you have great skill to do that with a small dozer but the machine is really overmatched by the size of that tree. My point being that an excavator of less weight (say my 12.7k lb machine) can take down trees where a much heavier dozer is required for the same task--assuming the time to do so is about the same. Does that sound right?

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Not really. Just dig three sides of the stump out and push towards the fourth. The remaining roots in on the forth side act as a guide of sorts. If you need more height for a CTL/SSL just fill in where you cut out and push over. I've taken down trees larger than 14" with a wheeled 843 Bobcat, just takes time and planning. Our 279D's with cab and counterweights come in around 10.5K operating weight.

If we are heavy clearing we'd use on of our 320 sized machines and if it's light our 953C can't be beat in production. If I had to choose between our 305 or D5GXL (the new D3 doesn't get close to brush ) to clear large trees I would take the D5 every time even though it's only 8K lbs heavier than the 305. Even a small dozer has more HP, weight and traction to safely take larger trees down.

zeroo said:

Honestly, an svl97 would be the perfect fit to the ex. But i have a u48 and an svl75 and I find myself wanting a small dozer…

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What types of jobs do you need a dozer for?

CM1995 said:

What types of jobs do you need a dozer for?

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Nothing business oriented, just farm. Piling dirt up for mx track, maybe a pond.

Need? More of a want.

Want's are usually more fun!

I'll target upgrading my tractor. I always thought it was a bit undersized given my rocky soil and tough brush. It barely has enough power to drive my PTO chipper/mulcher. Everything in my environment isn't easy. That said, I do have dozer envy even though I can't justify the expense. Some good insights from this overall discussion. Thanks. A

That's why we're here. I really enjoy talking about equipment - the stuff we have, the stuff we need and the stuff we just want.

I really want a mobile crushing spread - jaw crusher, impact and triple deck screen with stockpile conveyors. The $2M new price tag is the clincher.

I did buy a new Kubota LX3310 tractor to replace my lighter one. The tractor is 31hp, heavier, and still very maneuverable. The LandPride box scraper is just over 6' wide. I also had rear hydraulics installed so that I can tilt and curl the box scraper with two additional remote controls. It's a game changer. Ironically, the mechanic that installed the valve box assembly for the rear remotes must of been having a bad day or was distracted. The assembly wasn't torqued correctly. At 10 hours I blew two hydraulic o-ring gaskets between the assembly and rear housing. I was showered with hydraulic fluid spraying off of the inside of the right wheel fender then shooting up through the control lever area. The good news is that the Kubota dealer had a mobile mechanic out and repaired the issue in a couple of hours. I now have groomed roads and have corrected road slope (angled down toward uphill side) where I kinda' screwed up with my excavator cut.

Good choice on the tractor vs dozer. To lay a smooth grade on a road with a dozer takes many hours of seat time. I have a Case 450c lgp dozer and the only time I use it for road ‘maintenance’ is if it’s a road with bad problems. The dozer is by far the quickest way to cut down to sub grade and reshape the road and ditches. Anything less than that I’ll use one of my tractors with either a box blade, rear angle blade, or york rake.

I’m curious if you’ll find the 6’ box blade to be too big. I have a Kubota B3200 (eailer version of yours), loader, 4wd, filled tires, and a standard duty 5’ box blade is all it will handle. Also have a 6’ heavy duty hinged back box blade that I use on my IH 454 and 656. It would stop my little Kubota in it’s tracks, but I’m guessing it may be a good bit heavier than what you have.

As to your original post, I have a good bit of time on both 6 ton excavators and 450 sized dozers. Trees over 16” the excavator is faster, but the dozer will certainly put a large tree on the ground with a little time and the right technique. Small trees, briars, underbrush I can clear a LOT more land per hour with the dozer. If you skim across the top to the ground with the blade it will push out most small trees and brush without getting any topsoil. If you get one that is extra springy and wants to bend over tilt the blade and pop it out with the corner. For pioneering new roads in steep country the dozer is also faster, as long as there aren’t too many large trees. If you’re cutting a road on steep ground and you encounter a large tree that needs to come out the excavator is faster and safer. Same with large volumes of smaller trees, you can get a real hemmed up mess if you get in a thicket of 6-8” trees when pioneering a steep road with a dozer. With all that being said, if I had to pick just one it’d be the 6-ton excavator. It’s more versatile and can do most things a 450 dozer can, some faster, some slower.

This area burned in the Oak Fire in 2022. I have seen mini excavators do good work quickly tearing out dead burned trees and piling them for burning. There are so many boulders and granite outcrops that a dozer would have a hard time getting much done.

MG84 said:

Good choice on the tractor vs dozer. To lay a smooth grade on a road with a dozer takes many hours of seat time. I have a Case 450c lgp dozer and the only time I use it for road ‘maintenance’ is if it’s a road with bad problems. The dozer is by far the quickest way to cut down to sub grade and reshape the road and ditches. Anything less than that I’ll use one of my tractors with either a box blade, rear angle blade, or york rake.

I’m curious if you’ll find the 6’ box blade to be too big. I have a Kubota B3200 (eailer version of yours), loader, 4wd, filled tires, and a standard duty 5’ box blade is all it will handle. Also have a 6’ heavy duty hinged back box blade that I use on my IH 454 and 656. It would stop my little Kubota in it’s tracks, but I’m guessing it may be a good bit heavier than what you have.

As to your original post, I have a good bit of time on both 6 ton excavators and 450 sized dozers. Trees over 16” the excavator is faster, but the dozer will certainly put a large tree on the ground with a little time and the right technique. Small trees, briars, underbrush I can clear a LOT more land per hour with the dozer. If you skim across the top to the ground with the blade it will push out most small trees and brush without getting any topsoil. If you get one that is extra springy and wants to bend over tilt the blade and pop it out with the corner. For pioneering new roads in steep country the dozer is also faster, as long as there aren’t too many large trees. If you’re cutting a road on steep ground and you encounter a large tree that needs to come out the excavator is faster and safer. Same with large volumes of smaller trees, you can get a real hemmed up mess if you get in a thicket of 6-8” trees when pioneering a steep road with a dozer. With all that being said, if I had to pick just one it’d be the 6-ton excavator. It’s more versatile and can do most things a 450 dozer can, some faster, some slower.

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Very interesting and educational comments. Thanks MG84. I think the B3200 and the LX3310 spec out about the same in weight. The LX, being a newer model, has more bells and whistles. The L3301 (the less frills tougher built LX3310 counterpart) has the larger/stronger differential/frame configuration. I chose the LX because I wanted a better seat, tilt steering, tighter turning radius...etc... The salesman convinced me that the machine had plenty of power to run the LandPride BB1566 box scraper (that's about 3" on each side wider than the rear wheel footprint--something I'm getting used to) that is actually 66" wide at 450lbs. So, 5 1/2' wide not 6'. My mistake. The argument was the heavier box scraper (25lbs heavier than the 5' model) would do a better job (since no hydraulic down pressure on the three point hitch) and with the new R14 tires (fluid filled) I shouldn't have a traction problem. I have been scraping uphill at 15 degrees with little issue (unless I catch a big root or rock). I'm not convinced that the R14's are a better tire than the R4 I had on my last rig. Also, I don't like the HST whine on the Kubota but understand that this was addressed in the 2024 model. Manual shift models obviously don't have this issue--but an HST transmission makes more since for my application. I'm not doing long run plowing or mowing fields. I'm turning, maneuvering, backing up in tight situations constantly. A quick aside: I finished cutting (with my excavator) and then grading a new road on our lower property. I came off the dirt road onto a sloping downhill asphalt road. I immediately shifted into 2-wheel drive and turned uphill to trek back to the house. The front-end of the tractor felt loose. My left front tire had rolled off of the rim (tubeless). I drove the tractor to the side of the road and then discovered that I already had significant road rash on the outside rim edge (only 10 hrs on the tractor). Yes, I wasn't a happy camper. I went ahead and drove the tractor with the tire off of the rim but centered on the wheel about 600' to my barn. I called the dealer who said, put a jack under the frame, don't fully off-weight it so that the tire beads reseat on the wheel...and try to inflate it. This worked. I then checked the tire pressure on the other wheels. All were about 50% inflated based on service manual specs. I called the Kubota Service Manager who said: "At the end of the day, when you receive the tractor, it's your responsibility to make sure that everything is adjusted and working right." My response: "If I drive a new car out of a dealership I expect that everything is properly adjusted and in good working order. I think that is your responsibility when you sell a new product." The service manager then informed me that the salesman had already ordered me a new tire and rim. He appeared a couple of days later. When we went into the barn to examine the wheel rim the tire was flat again. I installed the new tire/wheel and then inflated the old one and put it in a water tank to look for leaks. It had a slow leak on the backside of the wheel rim--which may have been damaged during the manufacturing process (crease in the rim lip obviously not from the tire coming off). It's possible that my expectations weren't realistic--but I do believe the Kubota dealer is on the hook to deliver me a good machine in great working condition. Since this experience I have worked my way through most nuts, bolts, fittings, adjustment points, fluids, etc...as part of getting to know the machine and prevent future failures.