1963 Deere 820/2010 Final Drive removal

I picked up this 1963 John Deere 820/2020 track loader backhoe at auction that has a locked up final drive. In taking it apart the left side brake and clutch compartment is dry and looks okay, but the right side was full of water and rust, and even what appears to be mud. And a LOT of it that looks like it's been in there a very long time. Some relatively new looking cotter pins and a missing clip off the track master pin tell me someone had been in there before trying to get stuff apart but gave up.

I have it down to the point of pulling out the final drive and clutch shaft which is solidly bonded to the drum because of rust between the splines of the drum and shaft. For many days I've soaked the whole area liberally with diesel fuel and PB Blaster to try to free it up. I have threaded a 7/16-14 grade 8 bolt into the threaded end of the shaft which would normally come out the side, but can only pull it until the drum comes in contact with the side of housing.

Getting heat onto the hub would most likely break it free, but in doing so would require destroying the pressure plate and probably a few of the steel and fiber clutch disks. Parts are scarce and I don't want to destroy something I might not be able to replace so am looking for ideas or suggestions from members of this forum.

Is there a better and more robust puller setup than my current method of using the bolt and bridge arrangement? Or maybe another approach? Here are some pictures:


This is what things looked like when I first opened the clutch and brake cover...


After removing linkage and the brake band. You can see some of the dirt , mud, and even bits of broken pressure plate spring in the sump...

This is where the threaded end of the final drive shaft and pinion gear come out with the assist of a 7/16-14 bolt or similar threaded into the end of the shaft...


This page is from the shop manual and shows the arrangement of parts in the final drive. (NOTE - S/N of my tractor is 43157)
Thanks, -Tom

You take the set screw out of the drum?
Bob

Bluox said:

You take the set screw out of the drum?
Bob

Click to expand...

My serial number is later than when they used the spacer in earlier models (per the manual notation), thus no set screw that I'm aware of. More importantly, nothing will rotate more than a very small amount equivalent to the gear lash of the finals and if there IS a set screw it's down low and not visible from the plug hole where you would take it out from.

There has not been a single task in tearing this thing down that was easy. The track master pin was at the most inaccessible part of track, on the ground under the rock guard. The brake/steering linkage was frozen on both sides, the links in the clutch and brake compartments were somewhat seized from rust, the actuating shafts were frozen, and so on. To top it off the rear drive sprocket could not clear the rock guard because of where one of three dowels was left. Oh, and the drive sprocket shaft is frozen solid, likely from rusted bearings caused by years of water and who knows what else got past seals and into the works.

Yeah, this will go down as one of my greater challenges, and if it wasn't for how good the motor runs, the apparently good shuttle and transmission (which wasn't powerful enough to break the frozen rear finals free), I'd bring in Mr. Gas Axe and go into the parts and salvage business!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18mQtXV8u1telGpioyCzusVMFI-uOl8vV/view?usp=sharing

Well congratulations for taking on this project, and thanks for showing us a view of your world. Your report is well documented with explanations and pictures, and well deserving of some sort of reply. I qualify any mechanical advice I might give by disclosing that my experience is limited to repairing to some degree a broken Triumph 650 motorcycle about fifty years ago.

If it is any comfort, your frustrations, disappointments and ultimate victories sound familiar. I have just recently found myself in a somewhat similar situation as we (my mechanic Mitch and myself - well actually mostly Mitch - really, to be honest ALL Mitch) have been taking to pieces the final drive on one side of my dozer, not a John Deere 2010, but it does have fading yellow paint, in places. As the broken bits piled up, there was sheer dread of what mechanical abominations would be revealed next. After a while the dread was replaced with a sort of feeling of inevitability, overlaid with optimism for the future as I assured myself that I was really doing the right thing. Anyway, Mitch had the crane.

In your situation, it looks like the final drive shaft and pinion have to come out in order to progress. It seems you are confident in how this drum and final drive shaft are supposed to come apart, so that being the case, you could use a biggish hydraulic jack (whatever fits) rigged up with all thread, spacer plates, strong backs, packing etc and attached to the 7/16 - 14 bolt to apply enough force to break free and pull the final drive shaft and pinion gear out of the drum, as per your photo above. However, if I were unsure of the situation, I would be disassembling the other side steering brake and clutch (left side) first, just to be sure I knew the process, as the left side seems to be in better condition with regards to rusted up components.

Thanks for the optimism Dug! BTW, Your opening mention of your bike brings back fond memories of my beloved Triumph 650 Bonneville and bucolic rides years ago through the back country of the Northern California coastal country.

Two late developments are encouraging. First, it dawned on me that the large pipe plug hole on the outer case was formerly used to access a set screw that held a spacer in place. Since my tractor is a later model that doesn't use the spacer the hole gives me potential access to get my MAPP gas torch in to the outer hub of the brake drum. With luck I might be able to get the hub hot enough to break the rust bond while keeping tension on the shaft with my puller setup.

Second, I found that I can get a new throw-out bearing, pressure plate, steel and fiber clutch disks should I decide to use my plasma cutter to cut away enough to get access to the inner side of the hub should my first plan fail. All I have to do is try not to damage the drum and shaft as these parts would be more of a problem to source. Hope prevails!

Disassembly of anything beyond what I've already done is out of the question as the shaft will not turn more than the amount of gear lash between the sprocket drive gear and the output pinion/clutch/brake shaft. The sprocket drive gear bearings are rusted so bad that the gear is frozen in place. All else in the clutch and brake compartment has deteriorated too much to even get a wrench on. Once out the drum and shaft will undergo electrolytic treatment to remove as much remaining rust and scale as possible, then bead blasting and polishing as salvage attempts continue.

Here are some photos of when I was able to save the shuttle clutch drum off my Ford 555 backhoe about 4 years ago using the electrolytic method:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vlzq2pc5p-BZYhDPIBsJ8T5Hlgpv1AUf/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PRd_gjoan6QPJRbgU8K9Y1J3-Zevxbu7/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dXR210BsVBauCTpMHkrMNwXUA_tOpAUc/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/18mQtXV8u1telGpioyCzusVMFI-uOl8vV/view?usp=sharing

Regards, -Tom

I'm far from an expert on JD but I bet that drum has a set screw.
You will need to remove that final drive at some point.
If you remove the pressure plate you may be able to remove the discs and plates allowing the drum to turn.
Bob

Bluox said:

I'm far from an expert on JD but I bet that drum has a set screw.
You will need to remove that final drive at some point.
If you remove the pressure plate you may be able to remove the discs and plates allowing the drum to turn.
Bob

Click to expand...

The only set screw shown in the disassembly portion of the service manual is for a sleeve that was discontinued before my tractor was made. There is not a chance of getting the pressure plate unbolted as rust and years of erosion has rounded and flattened what remains of the bolts going into the drum. No mention of anything else holding the splined drum on the shaft once the outer bearing quill and bearing are removed. Just a slide hammer threaded onto the output shaft and the throw-out bearing and drum magically fall into the case, then unbolt the final drive with track sprocket gear and housing off. Looks simple as can be... unless you come up against what I have!

Since critical parts are apparently available from JDcrawlers.com (Lavoy), I'm going ahead with trying to get heat from my MAPP torch onto the outer hub of the drum via the large pipe plug hole formerly used for the obsolete sleeve and set screw, and have tension on the output shaft with my puller arrangement. If that fails I'm going into the case on the throw-out bearing side with my plasma cutter and cut away the pressure plate to get heat onto the hub from the inside. Ass long as I don't damage the shaft or drum in removal I have a good chance of getting the the old girl back in the dirt and working again. Hope springs eternal!

-Tom

Look at your parts picture ,shows the drum with a set screw like the last one I had apart.
Bob

Bluox said:

Look at your parts picture ,shows the drum with a set screw like the last one I had apart.
Bob

Click to expand...

I see what you're referring to, though the disassembly instructions from my manual show a set screw and locking nut holding the sleeve in place on earlier tractors.

More importantly, nothing will turn more that gear lash so there's no access to a drum set screw if there is one. And even if it was accessible the amount of rust and corrosion present would sink me anyway. At this point brute force is the only option I can see. But thank you for pointing that out, Bob!

-Tom

Bluox said:

Look at your parts picture ,shows the drum with a set screw like the last one I had apart.
Bob

Click to expand...

Happy to report I finally was able to free up the drive enough to rotate the drum, and sure enough there is a set screw as both you and the parts drawing show. I can't tell yet what the head is (screw, allen, hex). What did yours have? BTW, thanks for getting me back on track to figure this out! -Tom

Latest update on the final drive shaft removal: After being reminded by one of the Heavy Equipment forums members that the parts diagram shows a set screw holding the brake drum to the shaft, I found that by disconnecting the good left-side brake band link and blocking the clutch control back that I could now get the right side shaft and drum free enough to rotate by using a cheater and lots of diesel onto the clutch disks and pressure plate.

The problem was that being outside and with bright sun I couldn't see well enough into the pipe plug access hole to peer down and see where the set screw was. I picked up a nifty $80 digital bore scope from Amazon that I could now put down into the hole, then use a large adjustable wrench and cheater to turn the ring gear by grabbing onto the webs of the gear.

I marked the starting point with a paint marker on the drum and adjacent case edge and began slowly turning the ring gear and watching the camera. With almost half a turn of the drum I saw the set screw come up. It is a 5/16" square head machine screw that looks a little buggered up (possibly from someone trying to use a 12-point socket on it in the past). That screw has to come out in order for the final drive shaft to come out, thus freeing the pressure plate, clutch disks, and drum.

Dur to the difficulty I've already been through with the severe rust and seized parts and not wanting to chance breaking that screw off, I've opted to order up a 3/8" drive male pipe plug socket set (again from Amazon) that will have the correct 5/16 pipe socket to securely grab the head of the set screw. It might come loose due to the heavy application of diesel over the past couple of weeks, but if not I can get my MAPP torch down into the hole and use some heat to break any rust bond.

Here are some pictures of the setup:

The bore scope camera going down the pipe plug access hole...


The camera...


Blocking up the left (good side) clutch/brake control...


This job was not for the faint of heart and was a test of patience and a few false starts. But I think I can see daylight coming soon. I hope what I've been posting helps others who might find themselves faced with similar challenges. More updates to follow! -Tom