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Change delivery valve on 05' Solar 225 Lcv

Tim Modine

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Joined
Mar 3, 2019
Messages
78
Location
Rocky Point NY
Has anyone on had any experience changing the delivery valve on the injection pump. Ive been losing about 200-300 rpm when putting a load on hydraulics. Most notable in summer months when excavator is stretched out with loaded bucket of 1.65 cu yds. and when pushing pile away from machine. All fuel lines/ filters, strainer in bottom of inj pump, air filters , hyd filters have been changed no air restrictions(hoses have been inspected along w air intake pre cleaner)Hydro fluid has 600 operating hrs since last service interval. Any insight to some possible other causes would be appreciated. Currently around 8000hrs on machine
Thanks in adv. Tim
 

old timer

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Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
119
Location
manitoba canada
Occupation
field mechanic
Lets see if I can help you out.
Think your problem is the hydraulic pump is not de-stroking, this is added load on the engine.
When sticking out both pumps are feeding the stick circuit (added speed)
The proper way is too install a flow meter and set the pumps.
In the field I usually adjust the pump regulators "by the seat of my pants"

On the top of the pump are the 2 regulators, find the square tipped screws with jam nuts (one on each regulator)
Start by recording the speed of the stick in and stick out. (gives you a base line) Accuracy counts!!!
Adjusting one pump will effect the other.

Start with the regulator nearest the engine, loosen the jam nut and turn the square tipped screw counterclockwise (out) 1/4 turn. Tighten the jam nut and recheck the speed of the stick, should slow down slightly (about 1/2 second) The outer pump can then be adjusted if needed.
Solved more than a couple of Solars like that.
Good luck, hope this helps
 

Tim Modine

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Joined
Mar 3, 2019
Messages
78
Location
Rocky Point NY
Lets see if I can help you out.
Think your problem is the hydraulic pump is not de-stroking, this is added load on the engine.
When sticking out both pumps are feeding the stick circuit (added speed)
The proper way is too install a flow meter and set the pumps.
In the field I usually adjust the pump regulators "by the seat of my pants"

On the top of the pump are the 2 regulators, find the square tipped screws with jam nuts (one on each regulator)
Start by recording the speed of the stick in and stick out. (gives you a base line) Accuracy counts!!!
Adjusting one pump will effect the other.

Start with the regulator nearest the engine, loosen the jam nut and turn the square tipped screw counterclockwise (out) 1/4 turn. Tighten the jam nut and recheck the speed of the stick, should slow down slightly (about 1/2 second) The outer pump can then be adjusted if needed.
Solved more than a couple of Solars like that.
Good luck, hope this helps

Once i adjust the regulator nearest the engine, how would i know if the outer regulator needs to be adjusted.I apologize for my naiveness, I'm not a very good mechanic. Trying to get a mechanic to come out is near impossible and the only dealership i had is no longer selling Doosan/Daewoo equip. The closest one is in Pennsylvania (Best Line Equipment) that would come out to me on Long Island in NY.. The service call alone with travel is $1300.US and that does not include any labor or parts.

How do you record the speed, stopwatch? and is it done at idle speed with the stick starting in the fully retracted position(meaning stick all the way in towards the cab).It will probably stall out at idle. ill post a pic of the top of the pump to help identify the two regulators.
The mechanic that stopped in to watch and listen to the machine while i was working it yesterday to witness what it was doing at working temperature said when it was loading up the exhaust smoke was black.
Thank You
 

Tim Modine

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2019
Messages
78
Location
Rocky Point NY
Lets see if I can help you out.
Think your problem is the hydraulic pump is not de-stroking, this is added load on the engine.
When sticking out both pumps are feeding the stick circuit (added speed)
The proper way is too install a flow meter and set the pumps.
In the field I usually adjust the pump regulators "by the seat of my pants"

On the top of the pump are the 2 regulators, find the square tipped screws with jam nuts (one on each regulator)
Start by recording the speed of the stick in and stick out. (gives you a base line) Accuracy counts!!!
Adjusting one pump will effect the other.

Start with the regulator nearest the engine, loosen the jam nut and turn the square tipped screw counterclockwise (out) 1/4 turn. Tighten the jam nut and recheck the speed of the stick, should slow down slightly (about 1/2 second) The outer pump can then be adjusted if needed.
Solved more than a couple of Solars like that.
Good luck, hope this helps
Old Timer ,
One other question so I'm clear is,
I need to time the stick in as one time and stick out as another time to compare the two timed measurements.Please advise
Thank you
 

old timer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
119
Location
manitoba canada
Occupation
field mechanic
Hi Tim,
First thing I would like to say is I know how difficult it is getting a mechanic, but I would advise you to get somebody to give you a hand, doesn't have to be an expert, just some experience. For the timing it really helps.
All timing of stick speeds are done at high idle (full rpm) start the stick fully retracted (near cab) and extend all the way. I tell the techs in the shop to use their timer on the phone or a digital stopwatch, i can check tomorrow what the time should be, think it's under 3 seconds. I would practice doing that a few times, you get a feel of the machine when it hits the end (try it with your eyes closed) that way when you are timing, look at the timer, not the stick. Repeat a few times and you should be pretty close. Jot the numbers down (ain't written, never happened)

Reason for this, gives you a base line. Compare the timing before and after adjusting to see the difference. (stick out)
If adjusting the 1 pump doesn't make the stick slow by 1/4 to 1/2 second, adjust the other pump and re-time again.
What you are adjusting is the torque curve of the pumps. Adjusting exactly how I said, shortens the curve, pump de-strokes (unloads) earlier.

I believe what is happening is that your pump is not de-stroking when the pressures rise, putting added load on the engine (black smoke) This is a common problem I find with Daewoo/Doosan excavators when they get older.

Having said all that, the final test would be to push the machine around with the stick out.
If that doesn't take care of it, the servo spool is likely stuck/hung up in the pump regulator. DON'T try to repair that without an expert doing it. The potential is, small problem turns into a big expensive problem.

Have 2 225 Solar V's in the area, both over 15000 hours, did this procedure on both of them, with the same issue.
took a half day to convince the customer to not rebuild the engine on the first one. Time on stick out was just around 2 .5 seconds. The next spring he phoned and said "come out an' do that voodoo thang again"

Sorry about the long post, and good luck with your machine, please let me know how it turns out.
I will happily provide any other info you need.
 

Tim Modine

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 3, 2019
Messages
78
Location
Rocky Point NY
Hi Tim,
First thing I would like to say is I know how difficult it is getting a mechanic, but I would advise you to get somebody to give you a hand, doesn't have to be an expert, just some experience. For the timing it really helps.
All timing of stick speeds are done at high idle (full rpm) start the stick fully retracted (near cab) and extend all the way. I tell the techs in the shop to use their timer on the phone or a digital stopwatch, i can check tomorrow what the time should be, think it's under 3 seconds. I would practice doing that a few times, you get a feel of the machine when it hits the end (try it with your eyes closed) that way when you are timing, look at the timer, not the stick. Repeat a few times and you should be pretty close. Jot the numbers down (ain't written, never happened)

Reason for this, gives you a base line. Compare the timing before and after adjusting to see the difference. (stick out)
If adjusting the 1 pump doesn't make the stick slow by 1/4 to 1/2 second, adjust the other pump and re-time again.
What you are adjusting is the torque curve of the pumps. Adjusting exactly how I said, shortens the curve, pump de-strokes (unloads) earlier.

I believe what is happening is that your pump is not de-stroking when the pressures rise, putting added load on the engine (black smoke) This is a common problem I find with Daewoo/Doosan excavators when they get older.

Having said all that, the final test would be to push the machine around with the stick out.
If that doesn't take care of it, the servo spool is likely stuck/hung up in the pump regulator. DON'T try to repair that without an expert doing it. The potential is, small problem turns into a big expensive problem.

Have 2 225 Solar V's in the area, both over 15000 hours, did this procedure on both of them, with the same issue.
took a half day to convince the customer to not rebuild the engine on the first one. Time on stick out was just around 2 .5 seconds. The next spring he phoned and said "come out an' do that voodoo thang again"

Sorry about the long post, and good luck with your machine, please let me know how it turns out.
I will happily provide any other info you need.

Thanks for the help, really appreciate it. When you say full RPM Ive got a power dig mode button on display(I think you may know what i mean since you have experience the solar 225 LCV), should that be engaged it speeds the engine up about 200 RPM's or leave in standard dig mode to perform test?

When i adjust the regulator closest to engine, if i need to adjust the other regulator, its in the same increment counterclockwise 1/4 turn?. Then re-time.
Am i shooting for slowing the stick function down after testing and adjusting to about 1/2 a sec.

I do have an experienced heavy equipment mechanic coming out to ck machine out. Ill relay this information to him. Finding someone who has experience with a Doosan in my area is a needle in the haystack. This performance problem has been going on for a few seasons. Ive just had to deal with it and feather the controls when needed. Testing and adjusting on Monday, Ill lyk how i make out. Hopefully this will cure it!
Good thing Ive got the service manual and parts book. The timing test should be in there just have to find it.
Thanks again for you're time.
 

old timer

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Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
119
Location
manitoba canada
Occupation
field mechanic
Great to hear that you have a tech coming out to give you a hand! Yes the service manual should have all the specs and troubleshooting at the beginning of the hydraulics section. I honestly suspect you will find the stick too fast when you are testing. It will likely bang pretty hard at the end.
I would test everything in standard or dig mode, The important thing to remember is to establish a baseline, adjust 1 thing, then retest and compare against the baseline. Reviewed some notes I have and a 1/4 out (counterclockwise) lowers the power requirement of the pump 17 HP.
Had a 255-V that I found would react better if I turned the adjustment screw in (clockwise) What was going on in that machine was the pumps were out of balance (one pump was holding a higher flow) and that loaded the engine.
Remember that the arm out (dump) has 2 spools moving oil from BOTH pumps to operate.

Looking forward to hearing the results!

Oh....... and P.S. i have a bunch of tricks up my sleeve lf this doesn't work.....
 

Tim Modine

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Joined
Mar 3, 2019
Messages
78
Location
Rocky Point NY
Great to hear that you have a tech coming out to give you a hand! Yes the service manual should have all the specs and troubleshooting at the beginning of the hydraulics section. I honestly suspect you will find the stick too fast when you are testing. It will likely bang pretty hard at the end.
I would test everything in standard or dig mode, The important thing to remember is to establish a baseline, adjust 1 thing, then retest and compare against the baseline. Reviewed some notes I have and a 1/4 out (counterclockwise) lowers the power requirement of the pump 17 HP.
Had a 255-V that I found would react better if I turned the adjustment screw in (clockwise) What was going on in that machine was the pumps were out of balance (one pump was holding a higher flow) and that loaded the engine.
Remember that the arm out (dump) has 2 spools moving oil from BOTH pumps to operate.

Looking forward to hearing the results!

Oh....... and P.S. i have a bunch of tricks up my sleeve lf this doesn't work.....


Thanks for the information, I would have never known any of this. Just goes to show how valuable this forum is. I will relay all this information to the tech coming out tomorrow . Fingers crossed lol. I will post results asap.
 
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old timer

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Messages
119
Location
manitoba canada
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field mechanic
Afternoon Tim
Because I don't have a life, got called out to a DX225LC this morning for a travel problem, I timed his stick.
2.9 seconds, This is a newer machine but the timing should be close.

One more quick thought, because changing the position of the adjustment screw (2)also affects the position of the inner spring, the smaller diameter adjusting screw (1), turn the inner screw slightly more than 180* (198*) before screw (2) is backed out 1/4 turn (90*)

You should be able to find this in your service manual under "hydraulics"

(and the machine here had some trash in the straight travel spool)
 

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Tim Modine

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Mar 3, 2019
Messages
78
Location
Rocky Point NY
The regulator nearest the engine seems to have the adjustment facing the engine. Just my luck lol
Also seems that when I practiced timing the stick I did notice it would not really cushion at the end of the stroke like the boom does.
 

Tim Modine

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Joined
Mar 3, 2019
Messages
78
Location
Rocky Point NY
Afternoon Tim
Because I don't have a life, got called out to a DX225LC this morning for a travel problem, I timed his stick.
2.9 seconds, This is a newer machine but the timing should be close.

One more quick thought, because changing the position of the adjustment screw (2)also affects the position of the inner spring, the smaller diameter adjusting screw (1), turn the inner screw slightly more than 180* (198*) before screw (2) is backed out 1/4 turn (90*)

You should be able to find this in your service manual under "hydraulics"

(and the machine here had some trash in the straight travel spool)

Afternoon Old timer,
As my luck would have it the mechanic that came out to see the machine wouldn't try adjusting the regulator. He didn't want to become liable if condition got worse and suggested a Doosan tech plug into it to get measurements. Back to square 1. So i called the nearest Doosan dealer to me and scheduled a service call. Im looking at $1200 just for the service to and from which should cover mileage. They're about 110 miles from my shop. Then its $190.00 an hr once work begins on excavator. Awaiting confirmation to what day this week it will be. I will definitely post results from Doosan when they done.
Thanks again for the advice!
 

old timer

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Aug 30, 2010
Messages
119
Location
manitoba canada
Occupation
field mechanic
Hi Tim

MMMMMMM..... all the pressures and fault codes are available thru the dash (monitors engine and hydraulics), major faults are available thru the EPOS, behind the seat. (little window on top)
For the life of me i don't know where he would plug it in? In his defence, if you have never set pumps, it can be rather scary.
And for the record, that is why you time it BEFORE you adjust, that way if I s***w up, just put it back where it was. LOL
Make sure the Doosan Tech brings out his flow meter, that is the most accurate way to set the pumps. (for that price he better)

First thing he would do is a code check, you can do that by pressing the enter and escape buttons (on the monitor) at the same time for more than 3 seconds, navigate to the failure info, then real time failure. Any codes will be there. It's sad but even the techs i work with will fix the faults first, even though they have no relation to the problem. (example, swing pressure sensor, very common) This way you can let the dealer know if you see any faults before they come out (save a trip)

With your description of the problem, don't think you will find anything major. Most faults throw a alert to the dash, or the entire hydraulic system falls on it's face.

Good luck, if you need anything else, just ask.

You know...... If it wasn't such a long trip.......... never mind, they don't let old hippies like me cross the border BWHAHAHA
 

Tim Modine

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Mar 3, 2019
Messages
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Location
Rocky Point NY
These are the only codes it threw last year along with an alternator low code but if I ck that in the display it’s at 27.4 volts and those two stores codes are no longer displayed , not sure how they got deleted. I’m the only operator and owner.
It may have been out of his league to adjust it, he did seem uncomfortable.

I actually forgot about the epos controller. I’ll be sure to request them to bring a flow meter. I will definitely ask you’re advice if I’ve got a question. How far up are you. I’m about 6-7 hrs away from Plattsburgh NY LOL
I’m hoping I get a service date from the Doosan dealer in Keyport New Jersey soon.
Thanks Tim. IMG_2605.jpg IMG_2606.jpg
 

old timer

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119
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manitoba canada
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field mechanic
Hi Tim, as long as both codes are in the log you're golden. One is the throttle dial, the other is the fuel tank sensor. Don't know why it would self-delete thou?
If you look at a map of Canada, right in the center is Winnipeg, I live just south of there, but spent most of my career points far north of there, think.... close to the arctic circle.
Talked to an old friend in Montreal, he thought there was a dealership in northern New York? But then again he's old like me LOL.
When i was talking to him, he kept on relaying the conversation to his wife (so I thought) turned out he was explaining it to his cat!

Also checked 2,370 KM or 26 hours, ya, bit of a haul eh?
 

Tim Modine

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78
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Rocky Point NY
Hi Tim, as long as both codes are in the log you're golden. One is the throttle dial, the other is the fuel tank sensor. Don't know why it would self-delete thou?
If you look at a map of Canada, right in the center is Winnipeg, I live just south of there, but spent most of my career points far north of there, think.... close to the arctic circle.
Talked to an old friend in Montreal, he thought there was a dealership in northern New York? But then again he's old like me LOL.
When i was talking to him, he kept on relaying the conversation to his wife (so I thought) turned out he was explaining it to his cat!

Also checked 2,370 KM or 26 hours, ya, bit of a haul eh?

Thats a wee bit far to drive.Its ok if yer friend was talking to the cat. I talk to my dog, he'll sit there and listen as long as i keep goin.Dealer in Northern NY i don't know about. If there's one up north chances are they're further away from the one thats supposedly coming and be more costly. Have yet to get a confirmation from the dealer in NJ as to when they'll show up, and i will ask that they bring a flow meter or don't bother coming, so they better tell the service guy. So my service book calls it an engine overloading problem - causes are, Eng rpm control off, pump regulator set to high, pump inner parts worn or damaged, pump regulator piping clogged leaking, machine has no leaks.These are the stick speeds out of may service manual. stick out standard dig mode 2.4 - 3.0 sec, stick in 3.3 - 4.1 sec. Tried practice timing like you mentioned and i think its close to the stick in times and a lil fast on the stick in. I did alone so I'm probably off with counting the secs.
 

Tim Modine

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Mar 3, 2019
Messages
78
Location
Rocky Point NY
Hi Tim, as long as both codes are in the log you're golden. One is the throttle dial, the other is the fuel tank sensor. Don't know why it would self-delete thou?
If you look at a map of Canada, right in the center is Winnipeg, I live just south of there, but spent most of my career points far north of there, think.... close to the arctic circle.
Talked to an old friend in Montreal, he thought there was a dealership in northern New York? But then again he's old like me LOL.
When i was talking to him, he kept on relaying the conversation to his wife (so I thought) turned out he was explaining it to his cat!

Also checked 2,370 KM or 26 hours, ya, bit of a haul eh?

Evening old timer,
Tomorrow i will get to change proportional valve on the hydraulic pump. Would you have any last minute tips for me if you've ever changed one, things to look out for.
Thanks in advance Tim.
 

old timer

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Messages
119
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manitoba canada
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field mechanic
Hi Tim,
First thing, vac the hydraulic tank, otherwise all the oil will come out thru the ports under the valve.
Only other thing to say....clean before removal! I mean if you think you have it clean enough, clean it again. The proportional valve block should have a couple of odd looking checks under it, those lead to ports direct to both pump servos. Make sure they have no trash in them.
I cannot stress this enough, clean! It does not take much to damage anything in the pumps, BTW, I use cream hand cleaner when working on hydraulic or fuel systems, with pumice hand cleaners something can get in, but i might be a little anal LOL
Good luck!
 

Tim Modine

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Mar 3, 2019
Messages
78
Location
Rocky Point NY
Hi Tim,
First thing, vac the hydraulic tank, otherwise all the oil will come out thru the ports under the valve.
Only other thing to say....clean before removal! I mean if you think you have it clean enough, clean it again. The proportional valve block should have a couple of odd looking checks under it, those lead to ports direct to both pump servos. Make sure they have no trash in them.
I cannot stress this enough, clean! It does not take much to damage anything in the pumps, BTW, I use cream hand cleaner when working on hydraulic or fuel systems, with pumice hand cleaners something can get in, but i might be a little anal LOL
Good luck!

Yep its a little messy and i don't have a vac for the tank Lol. Being very careful with the cleanliness for sure and thanks for the tip, unfortunately the new proportional solenoid valve had a broken wire coming off the solenoid out of the box and have to re ship it back and hopefully they can ship a new one out tomorrow.
I do have a question on those ck valves,I got 2 new ones.I didnt think it was worth using the ole ones.
One came out and i was able to grab it off the block as i lowered it slowly to see how it goes back in and I can replace with the new one in the right orientation. The other check valve fell into my tray i had to catch the oil and i didn't see its orientation.
Theres a large hole on one end and a small hole on the other end of the check valve. The ck valve that I was able to see how it came out had the large hole going up into the pump, would you know if the ck valve closest to the engine goes in the same way?
Thank you for helping out! I really do appreciate it.
Tim
 

Tim Modine

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Mar 3, 2019
Messages
78
Location
Rocky Point NY
Old Timer, finally got someone with a brain to come out and put a gauge on my hyd. pump. After systematically eliminating possibilities going thru service manual, of engine stall when dead heading cylinders. He made adjustments to both front and rear pumps as you suspected. Full rpm i can dead head any function and no stalling with barely noticeable rpm loss, machine travels perfect in a straight line. Whatever rpm loss i get ( under 100 rpm) it comes right back up with very little black smoke from exhaust. The only time it wants to stall is at idle when i dead head the boom or the stick, he tried to fine tune and he got it as close to perfect as he could. When we put throttle position from 1(idle) up to position 3 of 10, under dead head it functions normally, no stalling. Regulators we're adjusted 1/4 turn each front pump and rear pump. Tech and I worked on it for about 3.5 hrs. Thanks again for the advice and tips. The tech did say he mentored under a Canadian and complemented that you guys are geniuses when it comes to excavator hydraulics. I mentioned i was chatting with you and where you're from and these were the first words out of his mouth, Them Canadians are real bad asses when it comes to hvy equip hydraulics, pure genius Lol.
Tim Modine, Modine Excavating
 
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