Think I’m pushing my tractor to hard…

Currently my only piece is a ck3510. Built the retaining wall and my shop area. Above the wall I cut down 5-10 degrees to reduce the angle so my tractor can more safely access the area in the future. The retaining wall itself I shaved from about 45 degrees to 30 or less to improve stability of the rip rap. The tractor couldn’t scoop into the rip rap to load it so I hand loaded it and used the bucket to transport and place the stone. 20 tons of rip rap in the photo with the retaining wall. Have another 20 to install later when I feel like it. Prepped wall is about 200 ft long by 6 or so foot average height to give an idea of the dirt prep that went into it. At least 60 tons of crusher run at the base scooped and transported because the truck couldn’t get back there to dump in place.

As far as the shop area goes had an excavator rented and knocked the trees and stumps out of the way. Everything else was done with the ck3510. Cut the ditches and moved a bunch of dirt around. Transported 20 tons of sb2 to install my culvert and entrance. Now I think I can get the trucks in and dump in place so instead of transporting it 50-100 ft all I’ll really be doing is spreading with the bucket and box blade. Looking at another 100-200 tons of crusher run over the next week or two as I get time.

This project is wrapping up then it’s just general stuff on our 10 acre personal property. The reason I’m thinking about getting a back hoe is the 27 acre development in start. Goal is 10 to 20 short term rentals over the next 10 years. Just the land bridge to access the property is quoted at $5 plus materials, all trees and brush left on site in a pile for me to deal with. Have another 500 ft of road to install to get to what will be the first unit. Another 3 roads totaling between 2000-3000 ft. All roads will be 16 ft wide. Also will have several hundred ft of 8 ft wide driveways. 10-20 sites to be prepped plus the trenches for utilities to the units and foundations.

The more I type this out the more I feel better about deciding to go ahead and buy a back hoe and not try this with my ck3510 and a stump bucket and box blade. Impressive unit for what it is but feel like it would be taking a stick to a gun fight. Given enough time it could knock some of it out with reduced rental costs but the time and diesel savings of the full size hoe alone will be major.

So with all that said what should one expect for $10k-$15k? I looked at a $5k unit and figured I’d have another $5k in repairs and major down time rebuilding it. Figured if I spent $10k id still have $5k in repairs but probably much less down time to to less major repairs and more cylinder and hose type repairs. The unit I’m looking at is my friends 580c. I know the auction he got it from as a decade ago before I got into real estate I used to buy and resell equipment from the same auction. I looked the last sales quarter up and almost every back hoe sold for an average of $10k in a comparable year range of the 580c. My guess is he probably paid between $8k-$10k plus he hauled it and completed whatever repairs resulted in it being at the auction in the first place. He buy no means refurbs them but does fix any major issues. If a hose it ready to go any minute or a cylinder needs rebuilt really bad he addresses those things and generally gets it as work ready as possible for a 40 plus year old unit. He will also tell you it’s a 40 year old unit and anything can happen tomorrow after you buy it. I haven’t gone and seen it yet. I expect to see some slop in the bushings and some leaks but nothing major. He wants $12.5k for it and will deliver it to my job site 30 minutes away. I currently only have a tundra and my trailer only has tandem 3500s so that is another perk of buying from him as I save on hauler fees. Plus I can trust him. I’ve seen two 580c tlbs within two hours of me for 10k firm but since I can transport and I trust my friend the extra $2500 isn’t a big deal. My uncle used to work on stuff like this for a living and I have experience and tools as well so keeping it running is something I feel comfortable about. Looks a lot easier to work on than some of the older units also. For the price what you guys think? Not sure how much all that dirt work would cost, $30-$40k. Figure even with whatever surprise repairs it has I should be money ahead to plus I can sell the hoe, although I doubt I will. I’m always getting my self into projects like this….

Welcome to HEF, Earl !
Your site looks really good. Beautiful country to put in those rentals.
I am surprised you couldn't get your Kioti to load those rocks. Especially with the teeth on the bucket.
You are fortunate to know the owner and history of the 580C.
You have a decent deal for with the delivery included. Nice. IMHO !

Welcome to HEF Earl! You covered a lot of ground with your first post. If I was developing 27 acres, I would probably rent a good bulldozer to start with. A $10,000 backhoe ain't no match for 27 acres like the picture you posted. Renting can really work out good for you because you can try out a machine that you think you might like to own. If your dead set on buying a backhoe, I would go with a newer machine spending North of $20K.

Tinkerer said:

Welcome to HEF, Earl !
Your site looks really good. Beautiful country to put in those rentals.
I am surprised you couldn't get your Kioti to load those rocks. Especially with the teeth on the bucket.
You are fortunate to know the owner and history of the 580C.
You have a decent deal for with the delivery included. Nice. IMHO !

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Didn’t have the teeth on the bucket at the time, it might do it now. Thanks, no clue what I’m doing but figure if you try long enough you will figure it out eventually and even a blind hog will find an acorn at some point. It’s coming together. That’s my personal property. The 27 acres is 30 minutes away. Our land was a pine tree farm. The new land is a bunch of old undisturbed hardwoods and the top of big mountains or hills, whatever you want to call them.

JL Sargent said:

Welcome to HEF Earl! You covered a lot of ground with your first post. If I was developing 27 acres, I would probably rent a good bulldozer to start with. A $10,000 backhoe ain't no match for 27 acres like the picture you posted. Renting can really work out good for you because you can try out a machine that you think you might like to own. If your dead set on buying a backhoe, I would go with a newer machine spending North of $20K.

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Hah, yea, I try and keep my messages short and to the point but I’m bad about rattling on and end up with a 10 page post. I thought about a dozer but I’ve never ran one. I get the concept of lowering grade in bites and not digging a giant hole but everyone always says those are the hardest units to run. I’ve ran a 10 ton excavator and loved it but I know more about fixing back hoes than excavators. The 7k excavator actually impressed me for what it is. Ran a 6k tb235 if I recall and it was way to slow anything major. Took forever to knock over one 20 inch oak. So if the back hoe is way to small for the scope of work I’m gonna guess that means I should give up my dreams knocking this out with my ck 3510 huh. I keep trying to will it possible but common sense keeps slapping me in the face and saying I’m out of my mind.

An occasional paragraph would make it a lot easier to read.

Buy it.

Joe H

That's seems pretty close to the bottom depreciation price of a 580c that's in decent shape. I looked at two 580c before I found my JD 310. It's amazing how this stuff keeps going up in price. Whatever you might have to put into it, you can count towards the work you get out of it. Hopefully, the ole girl's output will be more than you have to put in. Then your option to get out of it what you bought it for.

Your utilities, foundation, perk holes, cleaning ditches all that will be perfect work for a backhoe. It will never compete with a tracked machine for clearing.

Make sure it has working brakes. Most of those of that vintage don't have working brakes. That might tell you what you're friend has done to it.

JL Sargent said:

Welcome to HEF Earl! You covered a lot of ground with your first post. If I was developing 27 acres, I would probably rent a good bulldozer to start with. A $10,000 backhoe ain't no match for 27 acres like the picture you posted. Renting can really work out good for you because you can try out a machine that you think you might like to own. If your dead set on buying a backhoe, I would go with a newer machine spending North of $20K.

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these are the only photos of the land I have on my phone. A lot of good building sites. Several of the photos show some of the valleys I want to build the home overlooking. Now that I’m looking at it not as many huge oaks as I remember.

boone said:

That's seems pretty close to the bottom depreciation price of a 580c that's in decent shape. I looked at two 580c before I found my JD 310. It's amazing how this stuff keeps going up in price. Whatever you might have to put into it, you can count towards the work you get out of it. Hopefully, the ole girl's output will be more than you have to put in. Then your option to get out of it what you bought it for.

Your utilities, foundation, perk holes, cleaning ditches all that will be perfect work for a backhoe. It will never compete with a tracked machine for clearing.

Make sure it has working brakes. Most of those of that vintage don't have working brakes. That might tell you what you're friend has done to it.

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the prices on used equipment is insane. It’s why I bought a almost new kioti at the dealership. I was looking at 10k units and they were trashed out old money pits. For 10k more I can brand new with warranty, run it 5 or 10 years, sell it for a decent chunk of money and buy a new to write off on my taxes. I think there is a whole lot of folks that can justify spending less all fighting for cheaper units and the supply isn’t big enough to keep up so the prices are rather high. I’ve noticed that on the hoes also. 12.5k was really at the max of what I want to spend however I am noticing between 15-20k a lot of decent options seem to become available and it appears less people are fitting over them. For example when I see a trashed pre 70s unit hit the market for 5k it’s a frenzy and it’s gone in 2 days. It’s cheap yea….but everyone I’ve seen was a basket of problems.

I’ll see how my buddies 580c is. It’s not out on the job making me money as a production machine so some down time is no big deal.

I’ll keep looking and see if a few grand more would get something much nicer tho. There’s a 580k 4x4 extend a hoe for 16k probably 4 or 6 hours from me. Looks between good to fair for its age.

If that 580c will work tho would be nice to save the money for other stuff….

What happens is something big goes wrong with the hoe shortly after you bought it from a friend? Not saying it isn't a good deal but a lot of friendships have been destroyed buying something from a friend or relative for that matter. Something to think about.

For loader work 4x4 makes a huge difference. A 580c is good, but a 580k is way more productive. If they are both in decent shape, the k is worth more than $3500 more, jmo.

That's a nice looking plop of land Earl!

mitch504 said:

For loader work 4x4 makes a huge difference. A 580c is good, but a 580k is way more productive. If they are both in decent shape, the k is worth more than $3500 more, jmo.

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im studying these machines but have a lot to learn. Besides the 4x4 and the extenda hoe what makes the 580k more productive than the 580c? I’m about to look the weight difference up.

I know the 4x4 axles take the abuse better when heavily using the loader but what other advantages? I refuse to by a tractor without 4x4 but seemed impossible to get a loader hoe stuck(within reason of course)?

Here is the 580k for $16k probably can get him down a little but not a lot. Would cost around $1000 but get it home and a lot of time.

Looks like the 580k is about 1000 lbs lighter. They case website brags about upgrading to the full synchronized transmission and high hp which I could both see as obvious perks. Only thing I didn’t like is the switch to wet brakes. It seems like people always use the wrong fluids and toast the brakes. Don’t know much about repairing wet brakes but it seems much more of a process than it is on the 580c. Shifting gears is something I’m use to and don’t think twice about because all my tractors are like that.

Wow, that is a nice looking 580k, phase 3. You're right, if you can run one, it is almost impossible to get a good backhoe stuck where it can't get itself out. However, you are going to have to put down whatever is in the loader bucket to do it. When you load the bucket, it lightens up the rear, thus making it hard to even back away from the pile sometimes. If you are mostly going to use the hoe 2x4 is fine. If you are going to use the loader, 4x4 is a whole different world. In short, it's not about getting unstuck, it's about keeping on working, also pushing power is at least doubled in poor conditions.

Also, the k has the Case 4-390 engine, which is identical to a Cummins B3.9. It is lot stronger than the Case 288 in the c, parts are also much more readily available.

I don't think there is any chance of that k being lighter than a c.

Also the hoe seems much stronger than a c.

mitch504 said:

I don't think there is any chance of that k being lighter than a c.

Also the hoe seems much stronger than a c.

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said they would take no less than $14.5 . Honestly sounds fair, 5 hour drive one way for me. I liked on the 580c how the clutch’s are separate unit from the axles and look like they are pretty easy to replace. The 580k looks like it’s all a self contained transaxle with the torque converter aft of the engine followed by a drive shaft then the transaxle. So if a forward reverse clutch goes out your pulling the whole transaxle? He said the brakes work so shouldn’t be an immediate concern but if they are wet brakes they will be within the transaxle also correct? Or do they have access covers like the 580c. I’m actively look for parts diagrams but can’t find any at the moment. At 14.5 that’s tempting….

“
This backhoe had main hydraulic pump and oil cooler replaced 2 years ago. Has new starter, ignition and new battery. Also just repacked both stabilizers and replaced seals in stabilizer check and spool. No cylinder leaks. Runs and digs good.

Hours unknown. Asking 16,000. “

So the k maybe be cheaper to keep going in case of major drive failure. Around $5.5k for a rebuilt transaxle. The c is around $7k and the power shuttle was another $3k. Transaxle removal on both units is a bear however the separate power shuttle on the c appears easier to replace separately however not being all one unit seems to raise the price. If I’m misunderstanding anything feel free to correct me. Been watching YouTube repair videos past couple of hours trying to get an idea of how each model is assembled and if one appears easier to maintain or repair than the other…

580k parts book (diagrams). --->https://www.mycnhistore.com/us/en/c...20000/cn/CED06496-EFBE-E111-9FCE-005056875BD6

I'm with mitch as far as using the loader and 4x4. I'm moving a fair amount of #2 gravel, probably a third the size of the riprap you show above, and I struggle to push deep into a pile without putting her in 1st gear and using the front wheels to help. I don't know Case but that 580K looks like a nice machine, especially if it fires up and runs decent, for the money.