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Track Roller removal

Mcrafty1

Mcrafty1

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Oct 12, 2019
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445
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Central Maine
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Earth work
My D6C has developed a bad track roller, does anyone have a method of removing the bolts that hold the bottom track rollers to the track frame without twisting the bolts off and creating a whole new problem? I am going to try heat, lots of heat and hope that its enough to allow them to start, if anyone has any pointers I would love to hear them.
 
Mcrafty1

Mcrafty1

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Central Maine
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Thanks for the reply, that's how I usually do things, sometimes it works well...sometimes it don't. Thankfully it doesn't have full rock guards so I feel like I've won half the battle before I start.
 
BigWrench55

BigWrench55

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Is that the dozer you are speaking of in your avatar? If it is. The last time I was changing rollers on that vintage machine I had several bolt break the weld on the nut inside the roller frame. I had to cut a window in the roller frame and cut the bolts out. Then mount the new rollers and torque the nuts. I then put a tack weld on the nuts and removed the bolts. Then weld the nuts in solid. It's time consuming and tedious and I hope that it doesn't come down to that for you. But at least all that work can be done lying down in the shade. :D
 
D5Dan

D5Dan

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Oxford, Maine
Mcrafty1, I’m rooting for you!!
...I have the same job coming up. Bigwrench55 confirmed the “I wonder if” is fact.
So rather than heat the bolt (only) is heat the surrounding area (to get things to expand, and rust to let go) better? I figured a “cheater bar” and get the bolts to budge then add oil and impact gun...

still cracking up over “at least you work laying down in the shade”!!!

make sure to post up some pics of the “scene”...you know we’ll eat it up!!
 
JD955SC

JD955SC

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On the older crusty stuff you know is going to be an issue a TON of heat from an oxy-acetylene torch is the way to go. I have used an entire set of bottles getting an undercarriage loose before

a couple other tricks to combine with the lots and lots of heat method is beeswax applied to the hot fastener and/or penetrating oil

and for broken bolt removal careful welding (it may take a few tries!) and yet more heat gets most of them out
 
W

Welder Dave

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Canada
Several people with experience doing this have mentioned to give the bolt heads a really good smack with a hammer before you try to loosen them. Hard to apply penetrating oil if the inside is sealed off. I don't think penetrating oil is going to wick up under the bolt head and then get into the threads when the bolts are pointing up. If the bolts were horizontal or pointing down, maybe. There's likely hard washers under the bolt head. If the bolts break, usually welding a nut or a flat bar with a hole in it on the broken bolt gets them out. Kind of a pain to do overhead though.
 
Mcrafty1

Mcrafty1

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Central Maine
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Earth work
BigWrench55 said:
Is that the dozer you are speaking of in your avatar? If it is. The last time I was changing rollers on that vintage machine I had several bolt break the weld on the nut inside the roller frame. I had to cut a window in the roller frame and cut the bolts out. Then mount the new rollers and torque the nuts. I then put a tack weld on the nuts and removed the bolts. Then weld the nuts in solid. It's time consuming and tedious and I hope that it doesn't come down to that for you. But at least all that work can be done lying down in the shade. :D
Click to expand...
That is the dozer, Thanks for the tips, I will keep that all in mind...and pray it doesn't come to that. I am going to use a rosebud on my torch and make sure it's HOT before I attempt to move the bolts, more the track frame than the bolt itself, I do have a Milwaukee fuel, 1/2 gun that puts a lot of torque on things...but Will twist bolts off if I,m not careful. Maybe like D5Dan said after heating it would be best to try and break them loose first with a breaker bar and then work them out with the rattle gun.
 
S

shopguy

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Jul 2, 2011
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504
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Alabama
You can cut the head off and drop the roller out of the way then weld a nut back on for wrenching,helps about heating the frame around the bolt
 
Mcrafty1

Mcrafty1

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Messages
445
Location
Central Maine
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Earth work
BigWrench55 said:
Is that the dozer you are speaking of in your avatar? If it is. The last time I was changing rollers on that vintage machine I had several bolt break the weld on the nut inside the roller frame. I had to cut a window in the roller frame and cut the bolts out. Then mount the new rollers and torque the nuts. I then put a tack weld on the nuts and removed the bolts. Then weld the nuts in solid. It's time consuming and tedious and I hope that it doesn't come down to that for you. But at least all that work can be done lying down in the shade. :D
Click to expand...
shopguy said:
You can cut the head off and drop the roller out of the way then weld a nut back on for wrenching,helps about heating the frame around the bolt
Click to expand...
That's another good idea if the bolts don't budge with LOTS of heat, I'm really not a great welder so If it comes to that I may need to bring in my goto welder guy.
 
Mcrafty1

Mcrafty1

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I very much appreciate the ideas coming at me guys, it never hurts to have a plan B..and C and on and on when working on these old machines, they've presented many challenges to many people over the years, there's nothing being done today to them that someone(s) hasn't been though before.
 
G

gwhammy

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missouri
We had several broke on my 973 last year. Worked for hours getting nowhere on them so finally decided to take the track frame off. I know yours is a dozer so it may be different but we had the track frame off in maybe 15 minutes and upside down where you could get to everything. If I do any again I think we will just take the track frame off first. Good luck on your project.
 
W

Welder Dave

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Let the bolts cool a bit if you heat them red hot. I've never had the best luck trying to heat the frame around the bolts. If you have a rosebud, heat the bolt quickly, let it cool a bit, give it a whack and then try to loosen it with a breaker bar. Using an impact is more likely to shear the bolt off. You can kind of feel if you're going to twist the bolt off with a breaker bar. If you get them to move, then you can use an impact going backwards and forwards to free it up. Sometimes bolts will initially loosen and then get tight again from rust on the exposed end. Going backwards and forwards helps to gradually free them instead of shearing them off.
 
LCA078

LCA078

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Welder Dave said:
Sometimes bolts will initially loosen and then get tight again from rust on the exposed end. Going backwards and forwards helps to gradually free them instead of shearing them off.
Click to expand...

I don't have near the practice most folks do with stuck bolts but I have learned patience is key so don't gorilla it immediately or you'll probably shear the head. I actually prefer the impact up front (loosening and tightening) but only with pulses on the trigger to get initial movement. After initial movement is when I use the regular wrench so I feel any additional binding. And use a lot of your favorite penetrating oil and work the bolt back-forth so the lubricant gets sucked in. Either way, have patience and ramp up your force slowly.

On a side note, I've wanted to try out an induction bolt/nut heater like this: https://www.amazon.com/Solary-Magne...t=&hvlocphy=9028301&hvtargid=pla-898069353504

I have no affiliation nor do I have any experience with these things. But I feel if you're to isolate the heat to bolt and then let it cool, it'll be more effective than trying to heat up the bolt head and all the area around the bolt with a rosebud.
 
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W

Welder Dave

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I'm still not sure how penetrating oil is going to go up vertically on a tight bolt. Once it was loosened a bit I could see it working its way in but not when the bolt is tight and frozen.
 
LCA078

LCA078

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If the bolt is tight or frozen, it doesn't matter which way it's orientated- penetrating oils will have a very, very tough time getting in.

Good penetrating oils are very light (low viscosity) and have high capillary action to wick into small micro cavities. Capillary action in micro cavities way overpowers any effect of gravity so yes, a very light penetrating oil will wick up a vertical bolt pretty much at the same rate it will wick down a vertical bolt that's bound up. This is why spraying bolts and keeping them wet for a couple days prior to loosening really helps. Keeping a 'puddle' of penetrating fluid around the head when wrenching will allow it to be sucked in if the bolt backs out any distance and causes space (a small vacuum) to be created.

Same with spraying a very hot bolt/nut with penetrating fluid and cooling it down. You can get fluid in the threads a little more forceful this way too. But this is very dependent on the oil used because you don't want to coke (carbonize) the oil and choke off any passages with gunk.

Again, I know more folks have way more experience than me so only offering what works for me.
 
C

Check Break

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If your roller bolts are CAT and were installed with antiseize, they should come out without breaking. Jack her up as high as you can and dig a hole under the track to get more working room. If they're not CAT bolts, they'll probably break. Now comes the fun part. Drill a hole through the broken bolt and burn through the center until she comes out. A low profile mag drill makes drilling the hole much easier. That being said, I'm going to try an induction heater in the not too distant future on an old 46A that's getting newer shoes. Going to pull the swing frames first so if it works, it will speed things up, but in your situation, would make a major difference.
 
Mcrafty1

Mcrafty1

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Thanks guys for all the ideas, I've been away for a few days so I haven't been back here to see all the new replies. I'm going to try and finish the job I'm on now and get the machine back home before I make any attempts, I'll let you know how things turn out after that. I like the idea of the induction heating apparatus, I just don't see how that would heat deep enough to get to the threaded part of the bolts...unless I do cut the heads off and drop the roller out of the way first, I'm just not crazy about cutting the heads of the bolts without trying to use them to turn the bolts out first. That's seems kinda like poking holes in you life raft before you scuttle the ship.
 
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