Root Rake versus 4 in 1 Bucket versus Grapple

Can you pick up logs with a root rake? I have to clear a lane for a new rifle range. The backhoe thumb works ok on the downed timber but is slow compared to my bud's CTL with a grapple attachment. The rakes are around $2k but I can get a 4 in 1 bucket for about $3k less controls. Anyone ever retrofit one of these? I've never seen a grapple attachment on a TLB but have seen them on mid-sized tractors.

Maybe some forks on the bucket would be a cheaper way to carry tree's?

A decent grapple over a 4 in1 or a rake or forks every time. 4in1 buckets twist very easy and won't close properly after being used in timber. Timber slides off forks on rough ground and you can't pick-up timber with a rake. With a grapple with 2 independent clamps you can rake timber into a heap, pick it up and run it to a pile thus keeping it clean for the next process, burning of grinding.

They probably would but the stout ones I've seen are about $2k. I've thought about fabbing something over the winter. I never realized all the things a 4 in 1 bucket could do until I saw a JD with one in operation Saturday

Tones do you have a recommendation for a good grapple?

I find it hard to visualize a T/L/B pushing a root rake. Especially a 2 wheel drive.
Or, are you thinking pulling it with the BH attachment ?

US Attachments makes a root rake that pins inside the bucket. I’ll be clearing down trees for several days in miserable heat and my AC isn’t working. Currently I cut the timber to manageable size and push it out of the way with my bucket. It would be great to be able to pick it up and move it to a burn pile. I think a grapple would be worth the $ but I’ve never seen one for sale that would fit my 580M. My TLB is 4wd.

Ever thought about just adding grapples to your existing bucket?

--or--

Thought about adding a CTL universal mount to your front in place of the bucket and just renting a CTL grapple from the equipment rental places? Much cheaper and you get to add many other attachments as needed. Just need to figure out the hydraulics which you'd have to do anyway with a regular grapple.

Bote said:

Tones do you have a recommendation for a good grapple?

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The only recommendation I can make is not to get one with a single clamp that is the same width as the bucket. A 2 peace clamp with a ram to work each of them is better. No peace of timber is the same size from one end to the other

We had a whole discussion about an add-on grapple. If I remember correctly, the issue was hydraulics.

Here is the discussion:
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/grapple-for-full-size-tlb.80358/

As far as which option is best for working with trees and brush a grapple is best hands down.

Hydraulics and the ability to interchange with a bucket is a major hurdle for most of our big machines.

I went with a smaller tractor which I need anyway. It already has a quick hitch loader as most small tractors do. You are still looking at a couple grand minimum.

A cab backhoe without AC is an oven. Repairing the AC was at the top of my list in repairs. I wish my small tractor was cabbed with AC.

IF you only have and need the TLB adding thumbs to the existing bucket may be doable. I have thought about a couple of the titan thumbs but not sure it would be practical. Home fab may be better to get the right fit and function.

Great info on the grapple link. Guess I didn't search good enough. It's good to know that 4 in 1 buckets are that "fragile". This kind of info is priceless. If I'd gotten on this forum before I bought my backhoe, I would have spent the extra $ for an extend-a-hoe just so that I could have a weld-on thumb. Tinkerer, didn't you convert your thumb to hydraulic? Is a "CTL universal mount" a compact tracked loader universal mount?

Bote said:

Is a "CTL universal mount" a compact tracked loader universal mount?

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Yes. A lot of farmers add a CTL universal mount to the front end loaders on their tractors so they can easily swap attachments and somewhat mimic a CTL. This practice is probably not so common on construction front end loaders because there are actual CTL's to use on the same construction site that will do a much better job. But if you're stuck with one machine, this might be an option to expand capability.

Here's a quick google search for an adapter/universal mount for a 580K: https://hayspear.com/quick-hitch-adapter-convert-580k-case-to-skid-steer-bobcat/

You can purchase the locking mechanisms and fab up your own mounting brackets and bars for probably half the cost but I prefer a professional weld job to my mud-daubering efforts.

If you go this route, you can add the universal mounting plate to your current bucket to use the universal mounting bracket on your 580M which reduces the need to bang out pins everytime for a change of implement. I'm going this route with my old JD 401C industrial tractor with loader. Adding a universal mount allows me to rent grapples, augers, etc. much cheaper than buying dedicated tools. It all depends on how much and what type of work you expect to do with your grapple.

Bote said:

I would have spent the extra $ for an extend-a-hoe just so that I could have a weld-on thumb. Tinkerer, didn't you convert your thumb to hydraulic?

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1- Adding a thumb to an extend-a-hoe is not anything I would want to do.
2- Here is a link to a detailed installation of my manual thumb to hydraulic conversion. It wasn't too expensive and it has amazing clamping power.
I had to do some modifications on the last and final one because the first two thumbs failed. It needed a lot of beefing up to withstand the forces that caused the first 2 to fail.
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/my-manual-thumb-to-hydraulic-conversion.87899/

The only problem with a skidsteer universal hitch on a TLB is that they are much heavier and stronger than most skidsteers, and the universal hitches seem not to live long on a 12000 lb ctl, much less an 18000 lb TLB

I wouldn't think a skid steer hitch on a TLB would hold up to heavy duty use. You could try to be careful but sooner rather than later you'd need to push hard on one side of the bucket or pry something with the corner and twist the universal hitch.

mitch504 said:

The only problem with a skidsteer universal hitch on a TLB is that they are much heavier and stronger than most skidsteers, and the universal hitches seem not to live long on a 12000 lb ctl, much less an 18000 lb TLB

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Welder Dave said:

I wouldn't think a skid steer hitch on a TLB would hold up to heavy duty use. You could try to be careful but sooner rather than later you'd need to push hard on one side of the bucket or pry something with the corner and twist the universal hitch.

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Yes, absolutely which is why I said it all depends on what he wants to do with it. Manhandling full size trees vs. grabbing a mouthful of scrub are two different things. Same thing with using an implement day in and day out as opposed to just using it for a specific job. Without knowing specifics for Bote's size and volume of trees and other things, we're all just giving random ideas for him to ponder.

I have a Ford 445a tractor/loader. It is a medium sized tractor that was offered with or without a backhoe. Mine does not have the backhoe, but rather a 3-point hitch. It has a loader lift rating of about 3500#. It needs a bit of work, but when it is complete, I fully intend to put the ATI quick attach conversion kit on it. The tractor already has hydraulic remote, and they make an adaptor for multiple remotes. For this tractor, I feel that the skid steer plate will allow me many options, and because it is a medium sized unit, I don't think I will over work the skid steer mount. I would not consider it for my full size because it lifts somewhere around 7000#.

https://www.ati-corporation.com/loader-attachments/tach-all-quick-attach.php

Less the weight of a backhoe would make a lot of difference on the push power available. Would still have to be careful with corner loading and lifting.