Just heard about a diesel shortage?

So how many of these companies are connected? Are the loss adjusters looking into it?

Your posting on the wrong forum to open that can of worms and that information is widely under reported here not that you cant find it but you have to go looking for it


On another note my fuel supplier said march and April both were record months in revenue and gallons pumped so in part I do believe we have a shortage of infrastructure capacity the local tank farm supplies by pipeline is pretty well maxed out in pipeline capacity to the point there talking more about shipping fuel by rail to meet demand

Also the tank farm moth balled a new terminal build out it would have increased there truck loading and storage capacity by close to 20 percent but the investors backed off due to current energy policy making the ROI of such an investment a pretty big risk

DMiller said:

Our issue is not the availability of electric machines, are testing full electric trucks W Coast, AMAZON has full electric delivery vans and are Tesla Cars everywhere, HOWEVER our electrical system is in peril, plants are getting old, wind and solar are not cutting it as general Bulk delivery replacements, only new Nukes USA are in GA (2) with (2) in SC stopped newer fossil stations were built but the rants to get them closed are now working, and the newest wrinkle is Large Solar Arrays Reflect MASSIVE amounts of Heat BACK into the atmosphere causing warmer than expected regional temps around them. Nothing Humans EVER Do to "Fix" a problem have ever done more than exacerbate it or create worse.

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First be careful where you source your facts from. Large solar PV arrays don't cause warmer temps around them unless you're comparing them to a forest. Simple physics will explain this. In fact testing on Australian farmland with sheep grazing below and around the panels has shown to be beneficial to the sheep who take advantage of the shade in hot weather and find plenty of grass to feed upon. The farmers get paid for the use of their land every year as well as the wool or meat from the sheep. That's a bonus in Australia where seasons are variable.

When I was young the State Electricity companies were at the final stages of electrifying rural areas which had previously relied on 32v generators & lead acid batteries or kerosene fridges and pressure lamps. The amount of demand back then was just for a few incandescent lamps, radio and fridge. If you were really well off a washing machine was an available luxury. Now our electricity consumption is massive in first world countries and developing countries want the same. To turn around our electricity production from fossil fuels to renewable sources is a massive undertaking. But power companies have done the math and know that it's not cost effective to build fossil fuel generators or even in some cases maintain them well, as the cost of renewables will keep going down as they increase in scale and technology improves.

One point that seems to be lost in the discussion about the change from fossil fuels to electricity is that local renewables increase the economic independence of any country that imports fossil fuels. When you fill up your tank with diesel in most countries you are sending billions of dollars to Saudi Arabia and other middle east countries as well as Russia. This increases the leverage these countries have over ours, holding us to ransom with real or manufactured shortages. Don't forget OPEC is a cartel, a type of organisation that is illegal in most countries.

In Australia we have led the world in home rooftop solar. We are one of the cheapest places in the world to have rooftop solar, less than half the cost per installed watt than sunny Texas. Initially there was a lot of Govt subsidy to get this happening but that has faded. However the scale and competition in the sector has led to steadily decreasing costs and the next step is lower battery storage costs which will enable many home owners to run virtually off grid and avoid the massive increases in power costs much of Australia is experiencing due to high coal and gas prices on the world market. In fact the cheapest electricity in Australia is in the Australian Capital Territory where our National Capital City is located. See https://www.environment.act.gov.au/energy/cleaner-energy It has now achieved a 100% renewable electricity target and is phasing out the use of gas.

AusDave said:

One point that seems to be lost in the discussion about the change from fossil fuels to electricity is that local renewables increase the economic independence of any country that imports fossil fuels. When you fill up your tank with diesel in most countries you are sending billions of dollars to Saudi Arabia and other middle east countries as well as Russia. This increases the leverage these countries have over ours, holding us to ransom with real or manufactured shortages. Don't forget OPEC is a cartel, a type of organisation that is illegal in most countries.

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I'm not sure how energy "independence" is gained by installing solar panels built in china vs. oil pumped by the saudi's, either way someone has your number. But dream away.

That and going 100% on solar and wind is a pipe dream. If the wind doesn't blow and its cloudy, you're in a world of hurt.

I have a big hydro dam a mile from my house. But to tell the rest of the world they need to go hydro because its cheap and renewable, doesn't make a lot of sense if they don't have a river with a couple bluffs to throw a dam between. Not much hydro made in the outback I imagine.

Wind isn't great because the cost and short lifespan makes for pretty expensive power. Looks nice with the subsidies. But they sure don't last very long.

I love the idea of nuclear, I just have problems with humans as a species being responsible for dangerous waste for 3,000 years. That's pretty long term thinking, that I don't trust companies and governments to follow through for.

I think that we are going to see a continual shift to renewable, but if you have a aluminum smelter going, there's got to be a constant reliable power generation grid to run a industrial society.

crane operator said:

I'm not sure how energy "independence" is gained by installing solar panels built in china vs. oil pumped by the saudi's, either way someone has your number. But dream away.

That and going 100% on solar and wind is a pipe dream. If the wind doesn't blow and its cloudy, you're in a world of hurt.

I have a big hydro dam a mile from my house. But to tell the rest of the world they need to go hydro because its cheap and renewable, doesn't make a lot of sense if they don't have a river with a couple bluffs to throw a dam between. Not much hydro made in the outback I imagine.

Wind isn't great because the cost and short lifespan makes for pretty expensive power. Looks nice with the subsidies. But they sure don't last very long.

I love the idea of nuclear, I just have problems with humans as a species being responsible for dangerous waste for 3,000 years. That's pretty long term thinking, that I don't trust companies and governments to follow through for.

I think that we are going to see a continual shift to renewable, but if you have a aluminum smelter going, there's got to be a constant reliable power generation grid to run a industrial society.

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The fun thing about nuclear is you could use the waste for more power generation or other purposes but we had a certain politician who outlawed that and literally made it so that you have to store the waste instead of recycling it, as France does.

crane operator said:

I'm not sure how energy "independence" is gained by installing solar panels built in china vs. oil pumped by the saudi's, either way someone has your number. But dream away.

That and going 100% on solar and wind is a pipe dream. If the wind doesn't blow and its cloudy, you're in a world of hurt.

I have a big hydro dam a mile from my house. But to tell the rest of the world they need to go hydro because its cheap and renewable, doesn't make a lot of sense if they don't have a river with a couple bluffs to throw a dam between. Not much hydro made in the outback I imagine.

Wind isn't great because the cost and short lifespan makes for pretty expensive power. Looks nice with the subsidies. But they sure don't last very long.

I love the idea of nuclear, I just have problems with humans as a species being responsible for dangerous waste for 3,000 years. That's pretty long term thinking, that I don't trust companies and governments to follow through for.

I think that we are going to see a continual shift to renewable, but if you have a aluminum smelter going, there's got to be a constant reliable power generation grid to run a industrial society.

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You can choose to buy from China if you like but we have a manufacturer here in Australia, you have a number of manufacturers of solar PV in the USA so you can choose to keep the money in your own country if you like and not send it to Asia. Also 90% of solar PV cells made globally use using Australian invented and developed technology from the University of NSW here in Sydney where continuous improvements in solar PV technology continue.

I think you are being misled by believing solar and wind combined with storage, (battery, hydro & hydrogen), is a pipe dream. The large private and mainly foreign owned electricity companies in Australia and elsewhere are focusing electricity production on renewables. These are major companies with shareholders to satisfy. In Texas it's happening even more than California and to quote Texas specifically: "Texas also surpassed other states in the amount of storage it has under construction or in advanced development, reaching nearly 20,000 megawatts, followed by California at nearly 14,000 megawatts.
Texas is experiencing a rise in renewable energy deployment not necessarily due to concerns over human-caused climate change, but rather because of the low costs of renewable energy sources like solar and wind development."

What is often not understood is that when power is becoming cheaper to produce then there's a lot of money to be made in storing it. Large scale battery tech and even distributed battery tech will be extremely profitable along with hydrogen which can also be used directly in industrial processes like steel manufacturing. One of our large steel companies in Australia is setting up facilities for just this process as well as energy production one hour north from here. Currently they have budgeted a billion dollars for that project.

By the way the largest aluminium smelter in Australia plans to be running on 100% renewable power by 2029.

Our government wants to use a broad brush and expect all renewables to be available everywhere. Renewables have a distinct local bias. Just like CO's comment about the hydropower, there are locations which favor PV solar, and locations that favor wind. Lets see how the PV solar numbers work in Atlanta, GA, with 60+ inches of rain and lots of bird poop, or Minneapolis with short day length, and compare the numbers to Midland, TX with lots more day length and no rain.

We have a local fight about a proposed wind farm. The only people who favor the wind farm are those with site contracts (including 2 of the 3 county commissioners). Some of the contract information has leaked, and the contracts contain anti-disparagement clauses. Those who signed the contracts are forbidden to voice any reservations, and those contracts are the most lopsided documents that can be imagined.

We have PV SALES companies US, not manufacture, not to any level of Commercially viable for Base Load power as will be needed for a round of nothing but EVs. PV Cells do not heat the Ground, the Reflected Sunlight is Heat for lower Atmosphere regions, it is becoming a real problem in those areas with Acres and Acres of cells. Are presenting this Reflected heat as PVHI, or Photovoltaic Heat Island Effect, is very similar to what occurs around mass areas of asphalt and concrete. Wind turbines in KS/NB/IA &TX are known to alter wind currents where they also are affected by general Ground Heating created Turbulence effect on the air feeding them, many sites have to secure during high daytime heat as become too erratic on delivery.

And again Megawatt delivery has a Second Aspect, Capacity Factor, Nukes run close to 97% full power time Duty Cycle or delivered capacity, Coal is around 87% with CNG systems at around 65%, Wind and Solar barely make 25-35%. If CANNOT get that up toward the 90% factor then are buying a Pig in a Poke.

Texas might not be a good example to use. I lived in Texas for 44 years. Helped build almost all of the lignite-fired generator plants. Of course, many of those plants eventually switched to Wyoming coal. We never had any lack of electrical power. now, most of the coal-fired plants are being scrapped and replaced with windmills, solar panels, and in some cases, gas-fired plants. All of a sudden, what to we have, you guessed it, brown outs, power failures in the winter, and warnings to conserve electricity when it get over 90 degrees. Windmills and panels do not work on calm cays, and cloudy days, AND days when ice and snow cover the windmills and solar panels. We got out of Texas while the getting was good. Oh, even after last winter, and early warnings about lack of power for this summer, they are still demolishing coal-fired plants in Texas. Pure stupidity.
Jeff

CO, Bagnall Dam got a Renewal on Life Span License as is closing in on 100 years in service, AMEREN's KEOKUK IA plant has done similarly where upgrades and inspections keep them alive, FOR NOW. Bagnall's License Document renews now at Ten Year intervals so when it is Dumped on will be a SEVERELY Bad Day for Lake Ozark shore line owners.

Table rock turned its turbines around 1960. None of the generators have ever been out of the hole. Its a great grid buffer, easy to ramp up and down for stabilization. I'm going to bet it will get new turbines when it needs them, but its going to cost big $$$.

There's some california lake homes that are no longer going to be lake homes when they pull those dams out. I don't see that happening in lake of the ozarks, because I tend to think we're not as crazy as california people, but who knows.

AusDave said:

You can choose to buy from China if you like but we have a manufacturer here in Australia

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You have exactly one manufacturer of solar panels in australia, and from what I read they don't make very many. Its almost exclusively chinese panels. We all carry around phones designed in california here, but churned out of a chinese factory, but I'm not foolish enough to think that's the same as them being made here.

I tend to think you would be more "energy independent" burning your own australian coal to run your own factories, than shipping your coal to china and having them burn it, to make solar panels for you. Either way the coal gets burned. Whatever makes you feel good.

Apart from anything else there's more carbon produced making lithium batteries than vehicle of the same size produces burning fossil fuel so all this green stuff is 100% bullshit.
With out a doubt Australia should be using nuclear power as it has some of the largest deposits of uranium in the world on one of the most geographical stable islands for base load.
Last month Brisbane averaged 3 hours of sunshine a day and boy are the city slickers squealing about their power bills. Some of the smarter ones crunched the numbers including the installation costs of solar panels and they don't stack up financially.

I, like everyone else sees a lot of reasons why things probably won't happen as envisioned. Seems many of you are saying change isn't possible because? But them again there were lots of reasons for why we couldn't possibly go to the moon in 1962. Seven years later we made it there. Dick Tracy in the comics had a wrist phone in the sixties, now we have hand held mini computers that do far more than just being a phone. We now have the beginnings of a renewable power industry. I'm not about to predict the future of that industry.

I work on a lot of individual home complete island power systems. Very expensive to start, maintenance can be $$$$ but if you build it right ($$$$$) then you have to do little to nothing for it over a long time. Makes one feel mighty smug when the grid is having problems. Still I like my commercial power, for now. But it is nice at least knowing how to pull the plug, if it came to that.

3 months ago I was talking to a friend at the power company during the day they were throttled way back on most plants because of solar and primarily southern California on really sunny days makes to much solar power so they pay az to take it and at night there buying power back from AZ on cloudy or rainy days that's probably not an issue of having to much power

I have had countless people try to sell me solar it never penciled it takes twenty years to pay off with the subsidies now if are power bill goes up 100 percent in 20 years I can pay it off in 15 but without a reasonable storage possibility your still paying 65 bucks for base service being hooked in to the grid the law says you have to be hooked in so why invest in solar there is no payoff unless you live in that house 25 years

Every pannel I looked at will be at 70 percent production or less at 20 years so once you pay for it it needs up graded to be cost effective the power companies keep making loopholes to not pay squat for the extra power created by solar and I bet its 10 years before grid storage is close to a thing

Since SRP shut down Navajo generating station power has gotten way more expensive here in 2 years like 15 percent that was a coal plant and one of the largest power plants in AZ next to the nuke. The single biggest customer for power from that plant was the CAP canal that carried colorado river water across the state needless to say the price of water has risen dramatically

My house is one of 2 houses on my street of about 30 houses that does not have solar on it this area and the entire phx market has an insane amount of residential solar that is not provided by the utilities but extra solar is bought for about an average of 6 cents a kilo watt in my neighborhood and then sold back at 11 cents or at 25 cents for peak hours

Until an entire house can collect store run the whole house load and charge there Tesla off of there stored power and make that ROI back in 10 to 12 years with a life span of 15 years minimum then it will never work and subsidies are not making it work better

Solar is not a viable option in the southeast, we just get too much rain and cloudy days. Wind is a no-go as well.

However we are blessed with hydroelectric ability. APCO has 7 hydro dams located on the Coosa river alone which is where most of my electricity comes from. APCO has 14 hydros, 3 coal fired, 6 nat gas, 1 nuke and finally 2 solar fields. The solar portion is just PR.

No matter how hard you pound on a square peg it will not fit in a round hole. There are smart renewable power options but one size solar doesn't fit everywhere.

I think it is hard to say the price of renewable energy will continue to go down as new technology is developed. The fact that it isn't developed yet tells me that the cost of that new technology is unknown, so saying the price will decrease is a hope, not a promise. Also, the fact that China controls most of the rare earth mineral access in the world is a major issue in new technology development, even in the creation of the technology we already possess. I think renewable energy should be a part of the process of developing energy sources, but it will not be all of it and I don't think it ever will, unless something completely evolutionary is created. Nuclear I think should be a major contributor, but seems to get little attention, except in shutting the reactors down.

You don't have to predict the future to see what is happening now. And if you can't see what is happening now, then how are you going to predict the future?

So right now, the price of electricity is rising to make renewables competitive. That is being dictated, more so than market forces. The other thing that is happening is grid reliability is going down to match renewables inconsistency and justify grid improvements needed only to use more renewables, but will be paid for by all grid users and other producers. It wasn't long ago that electric producers were required to meet reliability requirements to be tied to the grid, that has been reduced/eliminated? in order to subsidize renewables. Then when base load power is made to function as peaking power, but paid lowest commodity prices, there's no reason to maintain the reliability they're not being paid for, and you end up with Texas style blackouts.

Now, solar is amazing power, for $200 I can buy a panel that, as long as the sun is shining, will produce more power than I can maintain for maybe ten minutes. $1,000 will produce power equal to a work horse. So solar is real power and a solar powered society is completely possible, but we're not going to get there by substituting solar for coal power, (OR EV's for gas) and a coal powered grid fueling a society efficient enough to use solar, could well be more efficient than the solar powered one.

JD955SC said:

The fun thing about nuclear is you could use the waste for more power generation or other purposes but we had a certain politician who outlawed that and literally made it so that you have to store the waste instead of recycling it, as France does.

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Nuke is the most expensive power there is, it also makes diesel exhaust seem very clean when something goes wrong and thousands end up with cancers. Krypton 85 is more of a so called green house gas than is Co2.

chidog said:

Nuke is the most expensive power there is, it also makes diesel exhaust seem very clean when something goes wrong and thousands end up with cancers. Krypton 85 is more of a so called green house gas than is Co2.

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Not really true
Worked nuke 21 years, main released gas off the system was Nitrogen, krypton was a minute amount of a years worth of the gas that we purged and allowed to decay away for months prior to release. Gas system reduced radiologic gases to a minimum and any H2 recovered was run thru a recombiner to make water discharged thru the system as that had tritium to decay off.
Cost at the nuke per Kwh was less than $.05
Mainly due to using the fuel for 18 mos then reloading a third new and running additional 18 then on next reload the last of the first load was exchanged so got 3 18 mo cycles on 92-94 assemblies out of 196. They are 11” square and 14 ft long with only 4-6% of that entire assembly enriched uranium.

Was a fully constructed ready to implement recycling facility at Savannah River until 1998, built in 1972, sat unused until dismantled due to regs placed by the Fed that banned it being used.

Is around 40% reusable fuel in a 3 cycle ‘burned’ nuke assembly, just can’t due to regs, the French do that regularly.

Dirt burners unless pass the half century mark and do not convert to CNG are at around $.07-.08 kwh on Gas are above $.15,
Combustion Turbines are close to $.24 kwh even wind and solar are over $.06 due to capacity factor limits
Most odd power sources not base load are peaking value only or used supplementally.

Only really cheap electricity is Hydro but the Greenies do not like the impoundments. Bagnall dam here even with upgrades and massive improvements where is over 90 now makes electricity at less tha $.005 kwh, just not sustainable due to water loss over time. All hydros have to await a flow change or impounded water level recovery. Bagnall’s capacity factor is just 65%, Callaway Nuclear was 97% the largest dirt burner here was at 77% at Labadie.