You can leave a hose on it to try to catch it. Don't just sit on the relief. Bump it. If oil pukes out, you have your confirmation.
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Relief valve or packing?
- Thread starter James Sorochan
- Start date
You can leave a hose on it to try to catch it. Don't just sit on the relief. Bump it. If oil pukes out, you have your confirmation.
James Sorochan
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I ran out and started it up at idle and lifted up the boom. The bucket freewheeled curling from the weight of the bucket. The plastic plug blew out and oil sprayed. I put back down on ground and curled to relief with no oil spraying out. I throttled up to around 1400 RPM and tried again with no oil coming out.
Should probably back up a couple steps and review. You say the coupler is tied into the bucket cyl?
Also, you mentioned the top of the cylinder got hot. What is hot to you? Like hot enough you don't want to leave your hand on it, or just warm? Was the machine oil warmed up yet? I find this test easiest when cold.
The bucket should not uncurl in the time you mention. 10" in 2sec is not acceptable.
I will assume your fluid level is up? Power loss anywhere else?
Also just a thought on the full stroke test. I usually don't do them because the heat is something I look at with a FLIR gun. I guess it is possible that piston assy seated against something to null the test. They usually have an end-of-stroke snubber on that cylinder.
Also, you mentioned the top of the cylinder got hot. What is hot to you? Like hot enough you don't want to leave your hand on it, or just warm? Was the machine oil warmed up yet? I find this test easiest when cold.
The bucket should not uncurl in the time you mention. 10" in 2sec is not acceptable.
I will assume your fluid level is up? Power loss anywhere else?
Also just a thought on the full stroke test. I usually don't do them because the heat is something I look at with a FLIR gun. I guess it is possible that piston assy seated against something to null the test. They usually have an end-of-stroke snubber on that cylinder.
Last edited:
James Sorochan
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Fastline. The hydraulic quick coupler for the bucket ties into the bucket circuit back behind boom where the steel line coming off the back of boom changes over to flexible hose. I only ran the machine for 15 minutes so the oil was not really hot. The top of the cylinder was noticeably warmer than the bottom.Not so hot that I couldn’t keep my hand though. That may be normal considering the gland is gernerally a little more towards the top the way I was digging through the compost pile. The fluid was good and power is good on all other functions. I can take a picture tomorrow from the parts book of the gland with packing and post it for you to look at if that helps? Here is a pic of fitting that comes off bucket line and another of where it goes to I think solenoid. I wouldn’t think it has anything to do with h the issue at hand.
Attachments
heymccall
Senior Member
Actually, it does. If the Orings on that coupler solenoid are failed, youll get the same symptoms. If you have a -6orfs cap and plug, you could disconnect at piping and retest.
And remember, that connection can have a good deal of pressure in it, especially if the bucket isn't on the ground, and neutral.
And remember, that connection can have a good deal of pressure in it, especially if the bucket isn't on the ground, and neutral.
At the moment I am keying on that drop of the bucket and heat you are detecting. Typically a way I have sources these is to get that cylinder in a bind....in this case a bite it can't handle, and sit on that, on "relief" for a 30sec or so. The heat you are looking for will be where the piston is. If you can detect heat around that area, it needs opened up. I don't care about other tests. You can sit on 200psi or 20,000psi, there should not be a hot zone right where the piston is. That means oil is sneaking by, causing massive heating.
James Sorochan
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I’ll grab a thermal heat gun and a second person to recheck the cylinder and then cap & plug the solenoid line and retest. Thanks heymccal and fastline.
uffex
Senior Member
Good day
Attached are the creep values for a bucket cylinder maybe helpful fluid at tempreture measaurement in milimeters over a 5 minute period.
Kind regards
Uffex
Attached are the creep values for a bucket cylinder maybe helpful fluid at tempreture measaurement in milimeters over a 5 minute period.
Kind regards
Uffex
James Sorochan
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Right On!, Thanks uflex.
James Sorochan
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I’ve run a test on temperature of cylinder. So far there is a differential of about 3 degrees Fahrenheit between bottom and gland area.
James Sorochan
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Ran another temp test a little longer than last ( 3 - 4 minutes ) and got 4.5 F difference. Capped off hydraulic quick attach and tested with same results. Bucket full of dirt curled in dropped the same 10” or so in a second or so. I’ll wait for further comments and suggestions before I proceed.
James Sorochan
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What was the temp?? You are not looking for differential temps top to bottom. When I said FLIR gun, I mean a thermal imaging camera. I realize not many people have one, just saying.
if you let everything cool down, then fire machine, dig bucket into something it won't dig so it is on relief. Note where the piston likely is, sit it on relief for 10-15 sec or so and check for heat on that cylinder around the piston area. On a cold machine, there should be no fluid moving in the cylinder and it should not heat up because the relief should be happening in the valve block.
If you want to use your IR gun, do this test, then just comb up and down the cylinder barrel a bit to see if there is a hot spot. Remember there is a lot of steel there so getting instant thermal response won't happen.
if you let everything cool down, then fire machine, dig bucket into something it won't dig so it is on relief. Note where the piston likely is, sit it on relief for 10-15 sec or so and check for heat on that cylinder around the piston area. On a cold machine, there should be no fluid moving in the cylinder and it should not heat up because the relief should be happening in the valve block.
If you want to use your IR gun, do this test, then just comb up and down the cylinder barrel a bit to see if there is a hot spot. Remember there is a lot of steel there so getting instant thermal response won't happen.
James Sorochan
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Fastline. The temp was 54.5 F where the piston was and 50F at the bottom. It was raining and about 50F when I did it. I ran the test longer on account of weather conditions. Not sure if 10 - 15 seconds is long enough but I’ll try again. Thanks
Rain is not helpful here. If machine is dead cold and you get heating in the cylinder, there is a problem! I agree, if 10-15sec is on the light side but you will be making heat at the valves for sure. Your issues, at least to me, are pointing to that cylinder, but I can understand wanting to confirm a bit more.