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Cat 289c

Nige

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One question regarding machines without the diagnostic display. If there is a code on the machine doesn't it have a way to indicate to the operator that a code is stored? Like the check engine light on a car. I guess I am wondering why it is necessary to connect ET just to find out if you have codes, but then not surprised if that is the case.
There is an Exclamation Point (aka Master Fault Light) on the Monitor Panel. It should light up along with all the other indicators on the panel when you first turn the key on as a self-test, then go out if there are no Active Codes. The big HOWEVER in all this though is what are known as Logged Codes, meaning they were Active once but are not Active at this time. A Logged Code can be very useful as a diagnostic guide even though it is not Active. Without either ET or the secondary panel there is no way of seeing Logged Codes.

Here's a question. Do you have an Operation & Maintenance Manual for your machine.? It should live in the pocket behind the seat but on uised machines it's often AWOL. You can download an O&M Manual (Pub. Ref. SEBU7494) from Cat in pdf form for $49 if you are interested. It would probably be the best money you ever spend on the machine.

EDIT: I just realized that your particular machine is a very early model (effectively an A model although the decals do not show it) not a C as per the thread title which was started by someone else and you piggy-backed on to it. You don't even have the Master Fault Light on your machine, neither do you have the TPS mounted on the throttle pedal. So as regards the root cause of your symptoms we are well & truly back to Square 1.
 

sotexdirt

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Nige, the serial number containing C does not indicates it is 287C? It does have the exclamation point when turning key on along with the other lights. My full serial number is 0287CTMAS01631. If this is not a C then it is square one and if no tps then most of the previous discussion on the current theory would not apply. I will say since nobody has commented here they resolved their problem by recalibrating TPS, it is not proven as root cause.
I did download an O&M manual but not the one you listed. I will find that one. It is very useful.
 

Nige

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Sorry, call it a senior moment. I was convinced your Serial Number was CMP03044 when in fact it is MAS01631. Your machine is indeed a C model, so all the previous information regarding the TPS, etc, etc (basically everything apart from what I posted 3 posts above) applies to your machine.

Your applicable O&M Manual is in fact SEBU8020. $69 for a pdf download from Cat.
 

Drago663

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Jan 15, 2022
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Update on the slowdown issue My 289C has.
Service guy from Cat came out to diagnose the problem, and found the slowdown button throwing a code, he was very confident that was the problem, and ordered up a new switch.

Fingers crossed, I will give an update after it’s replaced!
 

sotexdirt

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Hope that works for you. I have been complacent on updating here. I did get CAT ET setup and connected to my machine to investigate any issues. There some logged codes. 1704-5,6 and 1705-5,6 which are Left Drive Pump Reverse control solenoid current above and below normal and Right drive pump forward solenoid current above and below normal. These were probably set by me as I did reseat some of the connectors trying to make sure everything was connected. I decided to proceed with the TPS calibration in any case. I did not finish the calibration though. The procedure requires the user to step through a range of RPM with the foot control and input to the ET when the RPM are in the threshold. The last step was to get RPM above 2850 but with the pedal fully depressed I could only manage 2800 or there abouts. I looked for adjustments to the throttle cable etc...and found that the lever was hitting the stop on the injector pump. There is a threaded screw but I don't see a way to turn it in, rather back it up. There is a metal cap on the other side. I am wondering if this is proper or if that is a hard stop that was threaded in? Any inputs on manual adjust to get more RPM?
 

Nige

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I did get CAT ET setup and connected to my machine to investigate any issues.
A good practice when using ET is to produce a Product Status Report (PSR) before you touch anything. That gives you a baseline to work from. The PSR is an Adobe pdf document that details every parameter on each ECM of the machine at the moment it was downloaded.

Then once you have meddled with connections, etc, download another copy of th ePSR and compare the two. The Diagnostic Codes and/or Events that you caused by doing whatever tests or repairs you did will be blindingly obvious.

I'll have a look for anything regarding the cable adjustment.
 

sotexdirt

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100%. I had futzed around with the connectors before I could spell CAT ET, so learning as I go here. It's not bad software and facilitates baseline as you indicated. Appreciate the inputs.
 

Nige

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It might pay you to have a look at this, or even disconnect on of the cables, either hand or foot control, to see whether or not it's the cable setup that is holding the maximum throttle setting of the governor back.

EDITA: I'm sure someone posted something not long ago regarding setting the cables on these machines but I'm damned if I can find it now.
 

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Drago663

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Well, he replaced the slowdown switch, and that did not fix the problem.
I mentioned to the tech that the TPS is historically the problem with this machine on the forums, but he didn’t think it was worth recalibrating because he checked and it was reading properly, a
He said everything electrical looked perfect, and it must be a hydraulic issue, he is pretty sure the slow down is the main hydraulic pump, and took a hydraulic oil test. Said they will more than likely be able to figure out the problem by the test…
 

Nige

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Check out that linked thread for an updated TPS which your machine probably doesn't have.
Also note one poster was failing to successfully calibrate a TPS because of a worn/stretched throttle cable.

Also note Chrisso's comment....... "Keep in mind this [TPS] is still only one possibility... there's at least half a dozen things that could cause the same issue though".
 

Drago663

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Got the hydro oil test back from cat, the result could not be better, they said there are no signs of and major hydraulic components failing, and said the sample was remarkable for the machines age.

Good news except now Im back to square one. He previously said the electrical looked 100%, and the oil test would show what was failing, but now he says it must be an electrical gremlin, or a simple clog in a line or something.
I sent the Cat technician the TPS document you brought up Nige, Thank you by the way! he has emailed Cat to get more info, for instance that document does not explain if by “slow down to a stop” it means- 1. Rpm slowdown down or 2. Speed of machine slowdown only while maintaining rpm. Because the slowdown to a stop “is” while maintaining the rpm. Happens even with the tracks off.
Any ideas if it could be a simple clogged pressure relief somewhere?
 

Nige

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he has emailed Cat to get more info, for instance that document does not explain if by “slow down to a stop” it means- 1. Rpm slowdown down or 2. Speed of machine slowdown only while maintaining rpm. Because the slowdown to a stop “is” while maintaining the rpm
Chrisso would be the best guy to answer that question. From the tone of his postings I would guess he has personal experience of the problem.
 

Chrisso

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Chrisso would be the best guy to answer that question. From the tone of his postings I would guess he has personal experience of the problem.

It's tricky to explain, but here's what I understand... These are electronically controlled hydrostatic systems that use a software "underspeed" strategy. The underspeed is basically a calculation made by your machine control ECM software that sets a target RPM just under (hence the name) the desired engine RPM. As loads on the machine increase, actual RPM drops below this calculated underspeed RPM. As a result, the ECM starts easing up on the hydrostatics (slows track speed) until either...
1) Loads decrease, engine RPM increases back to above the underpeed RPM, hence tracks speed up again, or
2) Loads keep increasing, track speed keeps slowing to a stop while the engine keeps running nicely.

If your TPS signal is bad, your ECM won't know you're pushing the pedal to the floor, so underspeed kicks in.

If your governor cable isn't set correctly, the engine isn't getting a max RPM command to begin with, so underspeed kicks in.

If you have a sticking park brake, the hydrostatic system can't overcome the load, so underspeed kicks in. You get the drift.

So we need to work from the easiest/cheapest things to the most expensive things. Replace a TPS with known faults (very reason for the service letter), make sure low and high idle are set correctly, upgrade machine software, track tension, check for failing idlers, debris, then start looking at final drives, etc, etc.
 

Chrisso

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for instance that document does not explain if by “slow down to a stop” it means- 1. Rpm slowdown down or 2. Speed of machine slowdown only while maintaining rpm. Because the slowdown to a stop “is” while maintaining the rpm. Happens even with the tracks off.

Engine RPM will never slow to a stop unless there's a fault with the engine or some other mechanical fault. Underspeed is the very thing that stops this from happening. If it's happening with the tracks off well that rules a few things out that I mentioned.
 

Drago663

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Great info! I believe I understand the “underspeed” now.

If I understand correctly, the TPS needs to be calibrated properly, because otherwise the TPS could be telling the ecm that it is at 50% throttle, meanwhile the cable is only pulling on actual throttle body 45%. Leaving the ecm to think the engine is running to slow, therefore engaging the “underthrottle”.
If thats the case, can’t we just adjust the cable to open the throttle body more. Example (TPS says 50% but throttle body is actually 52%) therefore rpm would be too high rather than too low. Keeping the ecm from going into underspeed?

I ask because I don’t have Cat ET to calibrate the tps.
 

Chrisso

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If I understand correctly, the TPS needs to be calibrated properly, because otherwise the TPS could be telling the ecm that it is at 50% throttle, meanwhile the cable is only pulling on actual throttle body 45%. Leaving the ecm to think the engine is running to slow, therefore engaging the “underthrottle”.

That's almost it... because engine speed and TPS signal are inputs to ECMs. It makes more sense if you say...

The TPS needs to be calibrated properly, because otherwise the TPS could be telling the ecm that it is at 50% throttle, meanwhile the cable is only pulling on actual governor linkage 45%. Leaving the ecm to think the engine is under more load than it actually is, therefore engaging the underspeed.

If thats the case, can’t we just adjust the cable to open the throttle body more. Example (TPS says 50% but throttle body is actually 52%) therefore rpm would be too high rather than too low. Keeping the ecm from going into underspeed?
Absolutely, but the catch is you need ET to see what the TPS is reading, otherwise it's guess work. Any time the governor cable is adjusted you really should be doing a TPS calibration also... unfortunately.
 

Gary Layton

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Excellent input back and forth by you guys. Good troubleshooting y'all are sharing...watching from the sidelines and learning slowly.
 
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