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Auxiliary hydraulics on Case 580 Super N

Willie B

Willie B

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Mount Tabor VT
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I bought a Case 580 Super N. This model is still in production, but no one seems to know how to supply extra hydraulics. It has a "hammer circuit" I don't think has ever been used. Looking at it, I believe it is a closed center system.
I'd like a thumb.
Can anyone tell me how, or close enough to VT to install it?
 
1

1466IH

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prairie du rocher, il
No where near VT but a simple solution is to put a T in the ex.hoe lines and then pin the ex.hoe in place. I can check on a few options for you tomorrow if you don't like the T idea
 
Willie B

Willie B

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I'd sure like to still use the extend a hoe. Last Case I had had at one time had a grapple on the front bucket. I re plumbed to the rear & used the third section on the loader valve. Mechanic at the dealer suggested a splitter valve at the joint of the extend a hoe & dipper. I'm not sure, there is a lot of motion there, hoses fold a lot there & it seems like a bad place to mount it.
Hammer circuit hoses run back under the operator's feet where there is a massive valve for hammer. Looks like one flex hose from pump, a return to filter & two to the dipper. I'd like to take advantage of hoses already routed nearly to the thumb. I've even kicked around an electric pump like used for a number of dump trailer type stuff.
 
materthegreater

materthegreater

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My grapple came with a two spool solenoid valve. My excavator had a hammer circuit activated by a button on one of the joysticks. I plumbed the solenoid valve using the hammer circuit as a feed. The pressure side of the hammer circuit went into the pump port on the new valve, the return line to the tank port. When the solenoid valve is a rest, the oil from the hammer circuit simply flows through the valve and back to the tank. I then connected the hoses that go to the arm to the work ports on the solenoid valve. I wired the auxiliary control switches to the solenoids on the new valve, and to activate the hammer circuit when any function is activated. This way the hammer circuit flow is only activated when one of the functions on the new valve is called for.

This gave me two full double acting circuits to the end of the arm. The only downside is the control switches are on/off type, not variable, so I can't feather the functions. I need to look into variable switches and figure out if they will work with these solenoids.

Hope that makes sense.
 
Willie B

Willie B

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1466IH said:
Wish you were closer. Could look at it and let you know for sure if the aux is one way or bidirectional
Click to expand...
It's a massive valve, big as a toaster oven under the floor directly below the loader driver's right foot. It has adjustable flow rate, up to 42 GPM. I think it looks as though all the valves are supplied from a multi T line at the hydraulic pump.
I'm not a hydraulic expert, but I think of open center hydraulics as passing through a valve to supply the next. Closed center (I think) would be piped like this where each valve gets a T supply to supply high pressure oil & another to return to filter.

This hammer valve has 4 heavy rubber hoses; supply, return to filter & supply to hammer & return from hammer. The solenoid actuated button seems to open flow in one direction only.
 
Willie B

Willie B

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materthegreater said:
My grapple came with a two spool solenoid valve. My excavator had a hammer circuit activated by a button on one of the joysticks. I plumbed the solenoid valve using the hammer circuit as a feed. The pressure side of the hammer circuit went into the pump port on the new valve, the return line to the tank port. When the solenoid valve is a rest, the oil from the hammer circuit simply flows through the valve and back to the tank. I then connected the hoses that go to the arm to the work ports on the solenoid valve. I wired the auxiliary control switches to the solenoids on the new valve, and to activate the hammer circuit when any function is activated. This way the hammer circuit flow is only activated when one of the functions on the new valve is called for.

This gave me two full double acting circuits to the end of the arm. The only downside is the control switches are on/off type, not variable, so I can't feather the functions. I need to look into variable switches and figure out if they will work with these solenoids.

Hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...
Now you have me thinking.
The hoses are BIG, 1" I think. Some, supply & filter hoses turn 180 degrees in 18" total length. Messing with big hoses in tight space would be no small accomplishment! I wonder If I could mount a cross valve on the dipper & control it electrically?
There, I could reduce hose sizes, as there is no particular need for 41 GPM in a thumb.

It'd open a world of possibilities, maybe even a very fast wood splitter.
 
gggraham

gggraham

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Here is the Burlington Installation kit offered at dealers dual flow if you are interested in a proper kit. This is a complete installation instruction manual. At the dealership we could install this in about 6-8 hours depending if it was a used machine or an install on a new factory unit.
 

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  • 580sn 2 dual flow aux.pdf
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Willie B

Willie B

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gggraham said:
Here is the Burlington Installation kit offered at dealers dual flow if you are interested in a proper kit. This is a complete installation instruction manual. At the dealership we could install this in about 6-8 hours depending if it was a used machine or an install on a new factory unit.
Click to expand...
Wow! Thank you! They do offer it as a kit? Or is that the parts list? Looks to be VERY extensive! I'll guess expensive too.
 
gggraham

gggraham

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Willie B said:
Wow! Thank you! They do offer it as a kit? Or is that the parts list? Looks to be VERY extensive! I'll guess expensive too.
Click to expand...
It will be a bit pricey I think but it is a complete kit. Ask your Case dealer for a price.
 
Willie B

Willie B

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gggraham said:
It will be a bit pricey I think but it is a complete kit. Ask your Case dealer for a price.
Click to expand...
I did, months ago. My Case Dealer has been dropped by Case as a new equipment dealer. They are still a parts & service dealer. Dealers are few & those in my state are farther, & they share my last name. Until now, I haven't had a happy experience with the only dealer in my state.
The people in Plainfield NH (nearer to me) assured me I wouldn't like the price. They stumbled out some vague alternatives.
 
Swetz

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The file gggramm attached has a name and part number on it. Maybe you could call a different dealer with the info. I went to the site, and it says they only sell to dealers. Maybe you could persuade them since your dealer doesn't want any part of it.
Burlington Installation Corp
Burlington Installation Corp. (BIC) has provided OEM, aftermarket and specialty equipment for CASE Construction Equipment since 1992. BIC works exclusively with CASE and has facilities adjacent to the CASE plants. Approximately 85% of all backhoes and skid steers are customized by BIC before they are shipped to the dealers. BIC provides thousands of products and services from including items such as hydraulic kits, GPS monitoring systems, cabs, fenders, guards, tires, radios, thumbs, lights, mirrors, chroming and pre-delivery inspections to name a few. BIC services are available for most of CASE construction equipment lines including forklifts and utility loaders.

Burlington Installation Corp Info
P.O. Box 9102
Wichita, KS 67277, US
Phone: 3169432515
Fax: 3169434448
Website: http://www.burlingtoninstallation.com/
 
T

Tinkerer

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Good find Swetz !
There is quite a bit of information on that website.
I thought this valve set-up was interesting.
They have the electrical schematic for the valve available for downloading also.
circut.png
 
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Willie B

Willie B

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I wonder if this diagram applies to 580 Super N with pilot controls? I will crawl under again, but I remember the hydraulic pump supplying directly the loader, backhoe & hammer valves. I didn't see a K5500 valve. Pump is rear of the transmission & seems to T to each hydraulic valve. If there were ports, or a workable way to add a T in the two lines, I could use a more generic valve to control the thumb.
 
gggraham

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joe--h said:
Crimp connectors & Scotchloks, trouble ahead.
Joe H
Click to expand...
At the dealership we never used scotch locks or the crimp connectors. Always a soldered connection and a proper terminal block on the switches. They are included with the kit and we just toss them out.
 
Willie B

Willie B

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gggraham said:
At the dealership we never used scotch locks or the crimp connectors. Always a soldered connection and a proper terminal block on the switches. They are included with the kit and we just toss them out.
Click to expand...
I'm largely ignorant of hydraulics, but not ignorant of electrical connections. Within wattage, the lower the voltage, the higher the amperage.
Low voltage (12 volt) connections are markedly more sensitive to high resistance connections, less electrical pressure to push through, more current to heat it. Soldered connections between copper wires might NEVER fail. All mechanical connections are subject to failure. When a connection fails, you then go into troubleshooting. Troubleshooting can be frustrating! It is a waste of human time. You will never waste a minute troubleshooting a good connection.
 
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