Tell me I'm not making a terrible mistake.. or maybe I am.

Hello folks, newb member here.

I joined this forum as I'm looking for advice on how to proceed with a mini-ex purchase.

Bit of context, I will be starting a land clearing and portable sawmill business this summer and will most likely be purchasing a mini-ex to open trails, remove stumps and move large logs around. I have a small tractor with a PTO driven woodchipper and brush grapple. I'll also be using a log loader with a winch for hard to reach places. I want to keep everything on the small scale and 1 man operation. Not going into forestry and timberjacks and firewood etc.

Anyhoo. I'm looking at the yanmar vio35 and sv40 or a JD 35G. Except for a kubota dealer I had trouble with, Yanmar and JD are the two brands sold somewhat locally. I have had great service from my JD dealer with my tractor and chainsaws pruchased there. I had good "sales calls" from the yanmar dealer and heard good things about them but never dealt with them. Because of the pandemic, I cant try either machines and the local rental companies only have Sany, Wacker Neuson and Kubota machines. SO I'm stuck buying without trying... I'll probably manage to sit in a 35 G but wont be able to try a yanmar before I place and order.

So my questions are:
1) Should I stick to JD and be happy with that without trying the Yanmar?
2) Which cab is more spacey? I'm 6' tall and 300lbs..
3) is the SV40 worth the extra money and extra weight over the 35 for my intended use?

Any other suggestions ideas ?
Thanks! Love this forum!

cab machine or open machine? I ask, because I am similar sized and it is a squeeze in and out of the 35G cab. For me it is well worth it, but as a one man show there are many many trips in and out that door.
I frankly would not buy anything I could not at least start up and move about a sales lot. If Yanmar can't do that then they do not want your business, IMO.
He can't make sales calls with a straight face if you can't at least try it on for size.

Thanks! I'm looking at a CAB machine with the longer arm option and counterweight. I'm also considering different attachments to make tasks easier but that can be added on later.
Having a hydraulic quick attach would prob save me some time as well. A tiltronator type thing might be good for log handling too but I was advised against it because of the added weight.
I own a 2 acres hillside forest property and a 32 acres wood lot I will be developing my skills on before I get started with the business btw. Gotta start somewhere!

Oh and the yanmar dealer is also a new holland dealer and mostly sell AG stuff. the lot is pretty much empty of yanmar machines.

tell him you are interested and want to sit in one, and if he can't make that happen and JD can, then you have a bit of an answer there

If I were starting a land clearing operation I would start with a bigger mini ex. A 3.5 ton in my view is too small if your going to try and make a living at it, and in my view it is unsafe as well. I would at least opt for a 5-6 ton machine. You can move bigger trees, clear more and its larger size allows you more stand off distance from some trees than would a 3.5 ton. The 5-6 ton would also allow you to run a Pro Link thumb, which is pretty important if you managing logs every day.

I would not look past WN excavators. The ET42 I know a lot about, and it would make the 5 ton list. Very powerful and well designed machine. It is their latest released machine, it is very nice. I think the Hitachi (Deere), Yanmar would of course be fine as well. I would check the specs on the machines of interest, lifting capacity would be an important spec to compare as well as the usual breakout force and arm force and so forth. Lastly, decide who you want to be married to.

I think having the correct size of mini ex is more important than what color it is.

But Yanmar's Red and black look soooo good!! haha I'm pretty much brand agnostic to be honest.

I'll add the WN to the short list. After posting I checked and the rental place nearby also sells new units and does maintenance on WN. The ET42 seems to have a pretty good weight/power ratio on paper at least!

Yeah it's been a puzzle to figure out how big I could go without having to get a big truck license around here. I'm pretty sure I can get up to 10k GVWR. I'm not sure I'd be safe pulling a 5 ton mini without a larger truck. I spoke to people at the SAAQ (local equivalent to the DMV) and they were pretty unclear.. I'll call again and hopefully get some better answers (or ask better questions).

I might start another thread or search a bit more on this forum about what size truck people are using for 4-6 ton minis. I was looking at a 3/4 ton Ram.

thank you for the input and for chiming in!

BigEv said:

I might start another thread or search a bit more on this forum about what size truck people are using for 4-6 ton minis. I was looking at a 3/4 ton Ram.

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According to Ram, a properly equipped 2500 has a GCWR of 25,00ish pounds. 8000 for truck, leaves 17,000 for trailer, equipment and payload. Seams like a lot of weight for that size truck, but that's what the manufacturer is claiming. The 2021 Ram 2500 actually has similar towing specs to my 2008 Ford F-350 SRW. My '08 does really well towing over 10,000 pounds, but dont expect good fuel mileage doing it.

The Deere 35g has a listed weight of 8,135 lbs, a 14k GVW gooseneck would weigh around 4,000 pounds. That leaves a little wiggle room for a fuel tank, maybe an extra attachment or two, and some tools, plus driver.

The ET42 is listed around 8600 lbs, and would also fit on a 14k GVW trailer. I would not go smaller on the trailer, but I would go bigger. A dual tandem 20k GVW would still haul everything, keep within manufacturer weight restrictions, and allow room to grow later on.

KSSS hit the nail with his suggestion, as you could rent an ET42 for a week and really know some things. The others would be more guessing on every front.
Also, look hard at that married comment.
Spending $1500 ~ $2000 on a week's rental could save you all sorts of heartache.

Thanks! It does seem like a lot of weight. I'm not that worried about fuel as much as braking power when carrying a full load. Lots of mountains and steep slopes around here. Maybe a goose neck would be better for same weight than a tilt deck (was aiming for that). So many pieces to this puzzle ah!
I'm lucky enough to have some money set aside to get the startup funded and I'm pretty confident about the customer base around where I live. Urban sprawl is getting here and there's huge demand in construction, land clearing and landscaping in general because of Covid... people a leaving the city to settle in what used to be rural areas. Every contractor I spoke to is booked a year ahead and prices have skyrocketed. I called every one I saw listed to see how busy my competition was haha!

gooseneck will carry more weight safely with the size of truck you are wanting, I think that was the point of that suggestion. Load is in front of rear axle. It takes at least a 1 ton to tow a bigger than 35 on the bumper.

When it comes to towing and picking equipment, there is a reason that the 3.5 ton machines are so popular (most units sold are in this weight class). It is because they can keep you out of CDL category. I think in many cases though it creates a false ceiling for many contractors. It becomes a situation where you "step over a dollar to save a dime". Choosing a smaller excavator than you need, just to save the hassle of a CDL, limits your ability to become more successful. It can also be the reason that some never make it. My suggestion would be to choose the right sized machine for what you want to accomplish both now and at least the next few years in your business plan. As Skyking points out, rental is a great way to decide what that size is. When you know what size that is, and for argument's sake, lets just say that it is a 6 ton machine. Acknowledge that will require more headaches in licensing, however that it is not impossible to get done and is but a requirement to see your business plan through to success. Don't let the artificial ceiling, imposed by licensing hassles (and costs) get in your way of picking the best tool for the job.

If my job is to pound nails everyday, and a lighter hammer is much easier to mob around on the job. However, I have to swing the hammer harder and more often to get my job done. Does that make more sense than to bring a bigger hammer and finishing faster and with less effort? Probably a poor analogy, but hopefully you can see what I mean.

While I see all that I always have the rental option in my back pocket. When my little machine won't do a specific job I can rent something nice and new and delivered. If the money is not in the job for that, The money was never in the job to begin with! Keep that in mind when bidding work.

Thank you all for the replies and info. A lot of food for thought.
I'm definitely in the "the right tool for the right job" camp. I've always held that whatever price difference I pay will pay for itself in efficiency if it's the right fit for the work. Guess I'm lacking the experience to be the best judge of that right now and it's why I appreciate the feedback. I will start by renting a few machines that's for sure.
The "CDL" requirements here take around 2 years to complete. It's a pain but maybe I should consider doing it.

just rent and see. With no experience to go on that is the only good path.

While I have never run A WN ex, keep in mind that they are a German co., & they excel at efficient & thoughtful design & construction. Generally way ahead of our short-sighted US brands.

I own a New Holland (Kobelco) EH-80, which is quite a bit bigger than a ET42, & I love that machine & its size. But I don't have to move it...it stays on my property. It has a hydraulic stick-mounted thumb, & a manual Klac quick attach with a 24" trench bucket, a 48" ditch bucket, a ripper (all Werk-Brau brand) & a skid-steer quick attach of my own design & construction. I work by myself, so the quick attach tools & thumb are essential.

If I had to do it over again, I would absolutely delete the thunb & Klac quick-attach & buckets & such, & invest in a tiltrotator of European design with a few of the matching attachments, namely a trench bucket, a ditch or cleanup bucket, a ripper, & a grapple. The tiltrotator would allow quick change of all the attachments (including hydraulic connections) without leaving the cab, & the grapple would be way more versatile than any thumb!!

The advantage of such a setup is that (with practice) you can virtually eliminate all hand grading & work. I'm going on 76, so that's important.

But there are 2 disadvantages: The first is cost...the tiltrotator setup is probably north of $20K, but you should look at it long-term as a setup that you can move to a replacement ex in the future.

The other disadvantage is you give up some bucket breakout force because the tiltrotator setup increases the tip radius of any attachment. But this is partially overcome by using the European style (nordic standard) buckets & tools, & by the extreme dexterity the tiltrotator gives to the tools.

In short, I wouldn't own another excavator without it incorporating a European style tiltrotator setup. One of the leading tiltrotator brands is EngCon, which I believe is based is Sweden.

I've got a bobcat E42 and a pair of bobcat E85s, they're all set up with Steelwrist tiltrotators. All are set up with a sandwich configuration to enable removal of the tiltrotator for more breakout force, or for when I plan on abusing the machine
I play with both trees and dirt professionally and have to make money at it.

First, I can whole heartedly say, that I would not spend my money putting a tiltrotator on a machine less than 4 metric tons. My e42 is just shy of 10k lbs with the additional counterweight, and it handles a tiltrotator well, but it does have it's limits.
It's what I would describe as a good compromise. It fits nearly everywhere, can pick up decent size logs, fine grades nicely, and can hog some dirt when it needs to. This machine was towed regularly behind a single rear wheel F250, using a 16k trailer and a proper weight distributing hitch. Perfectly safe, and I would not hesitate to travel anywhere in Qc with that kind of rig. We've upgraded from that F250 to a cabover dually hino for other reasons, but a pickup is perfectly capable of towing that class machine.

My E85's are just over 20k lbs, and a only a bit bigger than the E42. Roughly a foot wider, a few feet longer, and quite a bit taller. You can do serious damage with a machine this size. Big enough to do smaller scale clearing work (1-2 acres a day), put in culverts, and dig basements if you want, while small enough to not need a lowboy to move it. We tow our tag behind a tandem dump truck, but I've also had this machine behind a 33k gvwr medium duty as well and it moves just fine. I've cut many miles of recreational cross country ski trails, private roads and dug dozens of basements and additions with these machines.

If I had to only own one machine, it would not have one smaller than 6 ton. Given you're in Qc, you're gonna need a class 1 for any trailer over 4500kgs. I wouldn't let a drivers license upgrade limit the whole operation.

One quick word about tilt-rotators. They are not a forestry tool. They are built strong, but trees have a way of getting in and breaking hoses and wires. No one builds one that is guarded well enough for that application in my opinion. They are absolutely excellent for precision mechanical arborist work though.

For forestry, we use a shear, ripper for the stumps, and a forestry grapple for material handling.

Ultimately, I buy machines based on capability, proximity to dealer, parts availability. If a dealer can't get me a demo, or at least some seat time, I wouldn't buy from them.

StumpyWally said:

...
The advantage of such a setup is that (with practice) you can virtually eliminate all hand grading & work. I'm going on 76, so that's important.
...
In short, I wouldn't own another excavator without it incorporating a European style tiltrotator setup. One of the leading tiltrotator brands is EngCon, which I believe is based is Sweden.

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Thanks for the input! I have to admit that I'm a big fan of letsdig18's setup on youtube and it's something I am definitely considering. The yanmar dealer I mentioned before sells AMI attachements and I actually contacted AMI directly. They told me it was very easy (of course) to set up an account for a dealer so even if I end up with JD or WN I'll probably push to get those attachments and see if I can get some kind of credit for the stock attachments. I'll look into EngCon. Rotobec's head office is within driving distance from me as well and their rotating log grapple seems pretty interesting for what I have in mind. I'd just need to figure out a way to get a bucket/thumb on quickly.

NepeanGC said:

First, I can whole heartedly say, that I would not spend my money putting a tiltrotator on a machine less than 4 metric tons. My e42 is just shy of 10k lbs with the additional counterweight, and it handles a tiltrotator well, but it does have it's limits.
It's what I would describe as a good compromise. It fits nearly everywhere, can pick up decent size logs, fine grades nicely, and can hog some dirt when it needs to. This machine was towed regularly behind a single rear wheel F250, using a 16k trailer and a proper weight distributing hitch. Perfectly safe, and I would not hesitate to travel anywhere in Qc with that kind of rig. We've upgraded from that F250 to a cabover dually hino for other reasons, but a pickup is perfectly capable of towing that class machine.

My E85's are just over 20k lbs, and a only a bit bigger than the E42. Roughly a foot wider, a few feet longer, and quite a bit taller. You can do serious damage with a machine this size. Big enough to do smaller scale clearing work (1-2 acres a day), put in culverts, and dig basements if you want, while small enough to not need a lowboy to move it. We tow our tag behind a tandem dump truck, but I've also had this machine behind a 33k gvwr medium duty as well and it moves just fine. I've cut many miles of recreational cross country ski trails, private roads and dug dozens of basements and additions with these machines.

If I had to only own one machine, it would not have one smaller than 6 ton. Given you're in Qc, you're gonna need a class 1 for any trailer over 4500kgs. I wouldn't let a drivers license upgrade limit the whole operation.

One quick word about tilt-rotators. They are not a forestry tool. They are built strong, but trees have a way of getting in and breaking hoses and wires. No one builds one that is guarded well enough for that application in my opinion. They are absolutely excellent for precision mechanical arborist work though.

For forestry, we use a shear, ripper for the stumps, and a forestry grapple for material handling.

Ultimately, I buy machines based on capability, proximity to dealer, parts availability. If a dealer can't get me a demo, or at least some seat time, I wouldn't buy from them.

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Thank you! What you say all makes sense to me. More arguments to get my class 3 or class 1 licence.

BigEv, where in la belle Province are you?

NepeanGC said:

BigEv, where in la belle Province are you?

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In Ste-Agathe-des-Monts near Tremblant. About an hour north of Montreal. So about 2-3 hours from you ;-)