• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Can a Case 188 block be a donor for a cracked 207 block?

tortie

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Messages
9
Location
cartersville ga
First time poster, but I have checked the forum search here for previous threads on this subject. I found a few but they all were kinda short on specifics.

I have a 1978 Case 580C backhoe that I just bought (got it for relatively cheap) and the block is shot.
It has the 207D non turbo engine. Engine Serial no 2850509
Pulled the sleeves and the block is cracked between all four cylinders. Water froze.
The engine has low hrs (2700) and everything else specs out. I checked the crank and it is on the high side of standard. Same with valvetrain,..almost zero wear. Head is in great shape, as well as everything else on the backhoe itself. It's a shame this block is shot because everything else is in outstanding shape. What to do?

I have had no luck finding a 207 block or even a core engine. I have found a few 188 engines and have heard that the "blocks are the same" But I need to be convinced before I dump money into a 188 donor core motor.

I see where the 188 and the 207 have the same stroke, but different bores. When they went from the smaller bore on the 188 to the larger bore on the 207 did they achieve this by just making the wet sleeves thinner? Or did they change the actual bore of the block that the wet sleeves went into?
(Want to know if my 207 sleeves, pistons, and rods will fit in there)

I've also heard that some of the 188 blocks had different widths on the lips of the wet sleeves on top.
If so,...which 188 type should I be looking for to allow me to use my 207 sleeves?

Reason I want to know is that what I'd like to do is buy the 188 and just use the block,...and swap all the 207 intermals over to that block. I know the rod journals are different on the 188 but if I swap the crank,....that shouldn't matter right?

The guy about 2 hrs North of me has a few 188's to choose from,...is there one specific type (year, etc.) in particular to look for or even ones to specifically NOT choose. ?

Basically, I want to know,...for 100% sure,...that if I had a bare, completely stripped 188 block, can it be used to put all my 207 stuff in without issues?

Thanks in advance for helping me out with this. I am hoping to get this machine together soon so I can put it to work on my new homestead. Have lots of projects in mind.....
 

Juskatla

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
579
Location
Black Creek B.C.
Occupation
Retired
The 188 and the 2017 are the same casting and will interchange. Most guys will source a 207 to replace the 188. I was under the impression that there were more 207 blocks around as the 188s are getting scarce. Be sure to check the block between cylinders for cracks, as this is common. Have you tried all the usual sources as there are a lot of dismantlers in the east, not so many out my way. Maybe Melben, Tinkerer or one of the other knowledgeable guys here will have some specifics for you on interchange.
 

Juskatla

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
579
Location
Black Creek B.C.
Occupation
Retired
The 188 and the 2017 are the same casting and will interchange. Most guys will source a 207 to replace the 188. I was under the impression that there were more 207 blocks around as the 188s are getting scarce. Be sure to check the block between cylinders for cracks, as this is common. Have you tried all the usual sources as there are a lot of dismantlers in the east, not so many out my way. Maybe Melben, Tinkerer or one of the other knowledgeable guys here will have some specifics for you on interchange.

Edit timed out, but I meant 207, not 2017...

If you are 188 hunting, make sure you have the later casting with the tach drive, as older ones like on my '68 580ck use a generator tach drive. I'm curious what the symptoms were that made you decide to tear the engine down. I will be tearing down my 188 soon and am concerned about the possibility of cracks as you describe with your 207. Its a shame that blocks are frozen, when antifreeze will prevent that and control corrosion in the cooling system. I don't think your 207 internals will all go into the 188 block. A check on the Case on line parts catalog might identify different part numbers for the liners, which may indicate a different diameter.

If nobody has a definitive answer for you here, try a call http://e-backhoeparts.com/ He has been very helpful to a few others who post on here and may be able to advise you on options.
 

onemank6

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,175
Location
michigan
tortie i have no idea about you using the 188 block but like juskatla has said the website is for Dale and the name of his business is tractorstuff his # is 765-378-3396 im sure he can tell you what you need to know and he might even have a 207 block and he ships...check him out.....good luck....
 

tortie

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Messages
9
Location
cartersville ga
Thanks guys. I will check out the contact given tomorrow and see what he says.
As far as symptoms,..it was obvious. When I drove it down my lane (yes, it was a running engine believe it or not) once I got down the lane and I got off the backhoe I noticed a huge issuance of sludge/fudge coming out of the valve cover. A milkshake of water and oil. Shut her down immediately. Figured it was maybe the freeze plugs in the head, or maybe even the o rings on the sleeves at worst. First I pulled the valve cover,..freeze plugs looked good. Then I pulled the oil pan and filled the radiator with water,..it rained out of the bottom of the block. I mean REALLy rained. I figured it was shot o rings from it sitting for five years like the Previous Owner said.
But once I got it apart and saw the block...man,...each web between each cylinder was cracked all the way from the top to the bottom. It was immediately clear that this was not a saveable block. My spirits sank and I was bummed.

Still looking but I have a fellow looking for me who used to be the head mechanic at the Ford tractor dealership in Chattanooga. He's laid hands on just about every backhoe in this area and knows where the parts yards are. Hopefully he can find me a 207 block. I still haven't found a definitive answer about if the 188 block can change directly to all the 207 parts, but maybe someone has tried it for real and can shed some light on the subject.
 

onemank6

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
1,175
Location
michigan
Hey tortie i had to call Dale about some parts about mine so i kinda questioned him about yours and he has the answers your looking for there is a 188 block you can use but you need to talk to Dale about it as there are differences in them and he said he does have a 207 block give him a call im sure you will be glad you did .....
 

tortie

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2016
Messages
9
Location
cartersville ga
image.jpgimage.jpg

Ok,...well,..I did talk to Dale. Now I know why you guys think so highly of him, what a great guy. He really knows his Case info. Turns out there are some 188 blocks that will work with the 207 internals. The difference is in the side of the block casting. The right ones have "bumps" out of the block for clearance for the larger swing on the 207 crank. These type 188 blocks are very few as it turns out so not much help there either. He did have a 207 block on hand but with the shipping and the price needed,...I am still hoping to find one a little closer to home. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction and putting me in touch with Dale. I will be buying all my rebuild stuff from him.

Here are pictures showing the difference between the two type blocks. You can clearly see the bumps on the 207
 

Randall Mcguire

New Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2021
Messages
2
Location
wasilla,Ak
I have a 188 with cracks between the cylinders also but only half way. The engine ran fine until it spun #4 rod bearing. I think the engine will run ok with the cracks but I thought the cracks could be die grind down and brazed back to reinforce it to be sure.
 

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,865
Location
WI
It wouldn't bother me to grind out and weld up the cracks. I'd use a stick welder with a nickle rod, or SS, or a cast iron rod like nomacast, euctetic etc. Or tig weld it with SS or a filler for cast iron.

If you're really worried about coolant getting into the oil, run motor oil in the cooling system and take it easy in the summer.
 

Randall Mcguire

New Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2021
Messages
2
Location
wasilla,Ak
the cracks between the cylinder walls has coolant on both sides so no problem of oil in coolant but I do think these cracks have been there a long time while in use with out any problems. I think just drilling a small hole at the end of the crack should stop it from continuing further. I am not a fan of welding cast iron where there is any heat involved.
 
Top