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JD310c worth the risk?

Camarrowman

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2021
Messages
7
Location
Cherry Valley
Newbie here, glad I found you. I have opportunity to buy an 87 JD310C 2WD loader/backhoe with 4k hours for $5k. Starts right up, no smoke. Moves fwd and reverse. Loader, stabilizers and backhoe don’t move at all.
Q1: Does the hydraulic pump operate everything including the drive wheels?
Q2: Would the above lack of movement of the implements indicate pump failure or pump starvation or is there a lock out that I’m not aware of?
Q3: It seems parts are hard to find or expensive when found. Is this machine worth the trouble and expense.
I’m a master level automotive mechanic but know zip about tractor hydraulics. I hope some of the gurus on here can advise me or point me in a direction to look. Any help is appreciated.
 

DGODGR

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
1,062
Location
S/W CO
[QUOTE="Camarrowman
Q1: Does the hydraulic pump operate everything including the drive wheels? [/QUOTE]
The hydraulic pump only supplies power to the hydraulic functions. The drive-train does not fall into this category so the answer is no.
[QUOTE="Camarrowman
Q2: Would the above lack of movement of the implements indicate pump failure or pump starvation or is there a lock out that I’m not aware of? [/QUOTE]
Pump failure and/or cavitation (starvation-no oil in pump) have clues. Absolute failure would be easily determined via oil sample. One can also cut open the hydraulic filter to see if there is metal in there. Severe pump failure would cause a lot of metal to float around and get caught in the filter. I would also think that there would be some seriously nasty noises coming from it as well.
Cavitation would also cause some serious squealing noises. If the pump was cavitating I think you would still see some movement albeit jerky and maybe not through full range of travel (and a nasty noise coming from the pump).
If none of the hydraulics even move a little bit I would think that there may be a hydraulic lock-out on the machine. I've run 310Cs and don't recall there being one but that is possible (especially if there are no odd noises coming from anywhere). What does the seller say about it?
[QUOTE="Camarrowman
Q3: It seems parts are hard to find or expensive when found. Is this machine worth the trouble and expense.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure about parts being difficult. I would think that most, if not all, parts are still available from Deere. I'd bet that the engine in that unit is shared across much of the Deere ag segment so parts should be available for that from the place that sells green Deeres as well.
I don't know what expensive is to you, nor do I know the worth of the machine if you get it working correctly. I would think that to buy a new pump will probably run you about 3-4k. Oil another $500 (+/-).
[QUOTE="Camarrowman
I’m a master level automotive mechanic but know zip about tractor hydraulics. I hope some of the gurus on here can advise me or point me in a direction to look. Any help is appreciated.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like you could swap it out yourself. If there is metal in the system that could lead to other expenses. If it is otherwise a good machine yet has a locked lock-out switch the machine sounds like a steal to me.
 

Camarrowman

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2021
Messages
7
Location
Cherry Valley
Thanks for the quick response guys. The seller, a very young man/kid, tells me he has had the machine for only a year. Says the hydros failed suddenly, which would indicate a drive failure or a tripped lockout switch. He says he has kept up with the engine filters, oil,fuel and air. When I asked about the hydro filter and sump screen I got a deer in the headlights look from him.
The tractor is an hour away and and a mile of goat trail. I’ll pack some tools, a new filter and some fresh oil. Condition of the oil and what’s inside the filter hopefully will tell me a lot. I will definitely look at the drive disc Hoss, thanks for the tip.
Dgodger you mentioned a lock out switch. Where do I find that?

The machine seems like a good deal even if I have to put another $5k into it if overall they are good to start with. Any opinions on the reliability and longevity of these when maintained? Is 4k hours a lot?
Thanks again guys.
 

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,865
Location
WI
Don't get your hopes up on a lockout switch on a C, I'm not aware of anything like that in that era. Confirm the pump input shaft is turning with the engine, the drive coupling is intentionally weak. If the pump sent metal throughout the system, then you don't want it, there is no high pressure filter that I've ever seen, pump debris will contaminate every valve and cylinder, the whole machine basically.

The 310C looks like a gear pump version, so it will operate differently than most JD which were more functional closed center piston pumps. As a novice, you'll never know what you're missing until you get enough experience and try the other style.

Wouldn't hurt to ask your banker to do a UCC search of the serial number to see if anything comes up. think that's what it's called. Also, search the sellers background if possible.
 

Tinkerer

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
9,342
Location
The shore of the illinois river USA
Welcome to HEF, Camarrowman !
I am sure you already know, but I thought I would mention that a boom truck or wrecker can raise the front end loader and backhoe so they can be secured in position to move the machine.
As Delmer said---Verfy that the seller legitimately owns the machine. That is an awful cheap price. IMHO of course.
 

Willie B

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Jan 2, 2016
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4,040
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Mount Tabor VT
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The 310C I have not owned. I did own a 410C about 18 months. C series are great machines to operate. I've found John Deere to be not very helpful in parts department, but several suppliers are very good. Conequip, and broken tractor are great.
I had a significant amount of experience with an older (1974) 410, I'm not sure the 310C was similar or not.
Earlier tractors have a supply pump in transmission supplying a 8 cylinder radial pump. Piston travel is pushed outward by a cam at center of the pump. Return stroke is by springs. The center of the pump is pressurized & prevents the pistons from returning all the way. It's modulating, allowing pump volume to match use.
There is a priority valve giving flow to steering, not loader. As you likely aren't steering while using the hoe, the priority valve doesn't affect backhoe functions. My 74 was closed center, making it very smooth in backhoe functions.

Only hydraulic cut out I know of is the clutch pedal, it only affects wheel power.

I've not studied the hydraulic system as much on the 410C, but hoe functions were a good deal more user friendly than the Case models of similar vintage.

You'll cuss the two wheel drive.
 

hosspuller

Senior Member
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Aug 27, 2014
Messages
1,869
Location
North Carolina
There is a drive cut-out on the gear shift and loader control on some machines. (mine has it) It's a button, when pushed disconnects the wheel drive for loading and shifting. No hydraulic cut out...

Bring a multimeter to check out the solenoid on the transmission/reverser.
 

Delmer

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Jan 3, 2013
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He said it moves forward and back. Just no hydraulics. This is a gear pump as far as google tells me, you'll be able to tell in two seconds by looking at the pump, after looking at pictures of each style. I doubt you'll ever miss the closed center unless you ever try the real thing. Same with two wheel drive, almost impossible to get a backhoe stuck, you have a loader, backhoe and stabilizers to work your way out, far more effective than 4wd. You'll never back out of a mudhole with any load of dirt with 2wd, but if you have NO backhoe, you'll never complain about a 2wd backhoe.
 

Camarrowman

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2021
Messages
7
Location
Cherry Valley
Thanks guys. I have some thinking to do. The machine is in a very remote spot. Getting a second loader or boom truck on-site to position and secure the boom and loader will be extremely difficult and cost prohibitive. Seller’s has all the manuals and a bill of sale from when he bought it. Delmer you mentioned total system contamination if the pump has scattered. While I understand this would require a total system flush is it worth the time.
If this machine were more easily accessible to move to my shop I would be less hesitant to pull the trigger and take a chance on it. The extra time and money to simply get it to a trailer is what is giving me pause. Will chain hoist lift the bucket and boom? What do those weigh? If I can secure those the machine will drive back down the goat trail and onto a trailer under its own power.
I appreciate the info from you guys. Great forum.
 

Tinkerer

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May 21, 2009
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9,342
Location
The shore of the illinois river USA
Yes a chain hoist will raise the hoist.
Hopefully the backhoe is in the stored position now.
Both the host and boom can be raised with a floor jack.
It just takes time and a lot of blocking.
An angle iron cut to the length you need will hold the hoist after you get it raised to where you want it.. The bucket may need a chain on it if the cylinders don't hold it .
A total system flush can be done in a day or less if it goes well.
If I had the opportunity I would buy it as quickly as I could !
 

Camarrowman

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2021
Messages
7
Location
Cherry Valley
Thanks Tinkerer, the loader is on the ground, bucket level. The backhoe boom however is 3/4 extended and will have to be pulled up and back. The machine hydros failed mid down pressure of the backhoe boom.
I think I’ll secure the deal and let you guys know when I get it back to the shop. I may be advertising 310c parts for sale if this goes south on me.
 

Delmer

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If the pump grenaded and sent metal all through the system, you'll see it in the filter, or screen. Take a section of the filter and squeeze it in a vice to remove the oil, then inspect the pleats, or rinse with brake cleaner and see what settles out. A little sparkly is expected, lots of bigger chunks then I'd walk away, the chunks stuck in the seals and wear rings will wear out all the rods and cylinders and you'll have a parts tractor with non of the hydraulic parts worth anything, search lantraxco's posts if you don't believe me. hopefully it's the driveshaft broken and nothing is wrong internal. Running the thing down a goat trail, I might try to work out fixing it there and then moving it. I wouldn't want to try that with a new to me machine and no hydraulics.
 

Camarrowman

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Joined
Nov 19, 2021
Messages
7
Location
Cherry Valley
Thanks Delmer, the plan is to inspect the pump drive, change the filter and drain and clean the sump on-site. It would be far better to get things moving on their own to get it down the goat path and to a trailer. The rams all look smooth with evidence of seepage, so I will likely be resealing most them in time. The thought does run through my head it might be cheaper to rent a machine to do the work I want done.
31BE9D6F-C48A-4CDA-9D78-E4C8EA70EA60.jpeg 421C0B56-0B9D-4546-8EEC-F8703796AA58.jpeg
 

hosspuller

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Nice extenda-boom... For sure, jacks and cribbing to lift the bucket out of the dirt. You'll tie back the control levers while you're moving a cylinder, otherwise you'll be fighting the hydraulic system.

Getting the hoe & bucket to transport position ...It's doable with chains, jacks, and lots of cribbing. Think ahead for safety. These pieces weigh a lot. If it looks sketchy... it is.. so redo it.
 

Willie B

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Jan 2, 2016
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Mount Tabor VT
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About four years ago now, a friend of my son, a builder, bought a 410C. Four wheel drive, Extend a hoe. He asked me to haul it for him. It was 120 miles from home. I was impressed! The things I found most attractive were:
Lack of wear. It had 2200 hours on a 17 year old machine. Nothing was worn out! The paint job was nice! The tires were OLD! but not worn, they were HUGE 21" wide rears!
The seller, a hippie son of a wealthy man had bought a large farm. I think he had 1/4 acre garden, 2 acre marihuana field. Said he thought early on he should have a backhoe. 9+ years later, he hadn't thought of a reason to dig a hole.


I see it often, well endowed people come from a city. They feel foreign doing for themselves, they equate self sufficiency with skilled use of a telephone. They do not own a roll around tool box, don't own a shovel, rake, axe, saw, or a lawn mower, CERTAINLY NOT A GREASE GUN!!! and it doesn't occur to them to want them.

Two years later, my son's friend had had enough! He hadn't had the expected experience with backhoe ownership. Would I buy it? I did. He hadn't been honest about a few issues. Port relief valve on the boom lift was buggered! It should have been a simple fix, but John Deere parts said NLA. Weeks later, I was upset! My tenth call to John Deere, I asked: "If I were your best customer, would you tell me I'm out of luck?"
He replied: "No, we can rebuild them. Or I can sell you a rebuild kit for $53. I have two in stock."

My 410C wasn't worn out, but the digging bucket was damaged in the 2 years since I had seen it. I don't believe it had been greased in two years. Oil filter was the same, (with date) I had hauled two years earlier, If I remember 3-1/2 years old.
Seat cover was now torn.

Truth is, it was different from when I had seen it earlier. I spent significant money on tires, hoses, repacked several cylinders, replaced a dozen grease fittings, and got them ALL to take grease. A few joints had to be disassembled to scrape out the petrified grease. Bucket cutting edge was toast, with a couple missing teeth. Bottom corners of both buckets were rusted out from being left full of dirt & water.
 

Camarrowman

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Nov 19, 2021
Messages
7
Location
Cherry Valley
Willie, I know what you mean. In my previous life I would buy expensive/exotic cars from people with more money than brains because it just wasn’t running right anymore. A tune-up and a detail later I would flip them for profit.
Maintenance is the cheapest insurance of a toy or tool.
 

Willie B

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Jan 2, 2016
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Mount Tabor VT
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Willie, I know what you mean. In my previous life I would buy expensive/exotic cars from people with more money than brains because it just wasn’t running right anymore. A tune-up and a detail later I would flip them for profit.
Maintenance is the cheapest insurance of a toy or tool.
Yeah, I bought an old Mercedes once, It had a rebuilt head, (overhead cam). Old battery saved it from damage when the cam wasn't timed. I paid $150 for the car.

Old backhoes will soon need nearly every rubber part replaced. If neglected & used, it'll need a LOT of bushings & pins. Might spend $3000 on them, plus a LOT of work. Pig in a poke, it's a gamble, is it a simple fix, or a money pit? For me to get interested in a hoe worth $10,000. in good condition, I need better numbers. My son just sold a low hour machine with no mysteries, but needing a lot of TLC, (hoses & cylinder repacks, battery) for $2200.
 

MarcNH

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Apr 18, 2021
Messages
68
Location
Mont Vernon, New Hampshire
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Engineer
I have an'87 310C. If the hydraulic pump, a Vickers, is shot, the new ones are around $2700. I took mine to two places locally, both told me it was shot (beyond repair). I got a new one ,as I plan on handing it down to my son when I am finished with it.

This can all add up to a ton of money. That 5K price tag could ramp up to 10K very easily.

Very expensive parts. The "pulley" on mine was a $700 item, as it was an integrated part of the front crank seal. It wasn't easy to source. It seems that everything on this model (like the water pump) costs more.

Owning an old 310C is not an adventure, it is a career.

Ever see that movie The Money Pit? Mine will be running again in Two Weeks!
 

Camarrowman

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2021
Messages
7
Location
Cherry Valley
Hi Marc, this is exactly my fear with this machine. Spending $5k and another $5k to get it back in shape is not as troubling as spending that time and money on a machine that is going to be a future “money pit” to keep it running each year outside of normal maintenance. Worse is constant break down while on a project.

I don’t mind fixing up something worth fixing up. Would I be better off spending $20k on a newer more reliable, parts available machine and removing the previous owner from that. It does seem parts for this model are a challenge. Still talking myself in and out of this deal. I don’t need the hoe tomorrow but soon.
 
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