Welder Dave
Senior Member
Had a Hino that needed the throttle set about 1200 RPM or it could idle all day and not warm up.
-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
Lets discuss (fight, moan, argue semantics, cuss, etc......) oils
- Thread starter Vetech63
- Start date
If it didnt come out new with synthetic you are asking for trouble using synthetic. I hate the stuff but if ever bought something new that used it i would stay with it.I wish i had a Dollar for every time i had to talk some one out of using synthetic in a old high mileage engine.Just as a comment regarding synthetic oils, i used to have an old turbo 6.5 GM rattler vintage '98. Ya go ahead and laugh now. Summer i used shell rotella 15w-40 and oil consumption was minimal. Winter i used shell rotella 0w-40 for better cranking and starting, plus its easier on the oil pump(they have weak oil pump drive ). The 0w-40 is a full synthetic and using it the oil consumption would triple or quadruple and the front and rear main seals would leak. Then summer again, back to 15w-40 and it was back to normal oil consumption and no leaks.
Also those 6.5 engines had a real weak oil pump drive adapter that runs off the cam and when it blew an oil cooler line while my wife took it to work it took out the crank. When i patched it back together, i found that the gear teeth on that adapter were just about shot. The cam was ok though. So i reckon anything to put less strain on that mickey-mouse adapter would be beneficial. When i finally sold it there were almost 500000km on that old rust bucket
Pony
Senior Member
Back to the original question, can the oil be filtered clean enough to last indefinitely or does it "wear out"?
funwithfuel
Senior Member
The additive package wears out. The base oil can be refined into new blended oil. Nothing can suspend dirt and impurities forever. Sooner or later it becomes saturated with filth.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
Oil itself never loses it's lubricating ability. Oil in an air compressor lasts indefinately. Oil in an engine gets contaminated. Oil has been in the ground for millions of years and you take it out and all of sudden it wears out, no.
About 40 years ago I saw a guy on tv say oil never wears out. He said it just gets dirty. Keep changing filters, oil is good as long as it's not overheated. Also on tv mega builders last year saw super tankers being built and during the building process they put the oil tanks and oil in. 30,000 gallons or something like that said it is in there for the life of the ship, never gets changed. I still change oil though. I think is true it only gets dirty. Think back to 60's, 70's oil changes where at 12000 miles. Personally I think 3000 in new cars is crazy.
John C.
Senior Member
In a ship the additive packages are added as indicated by a comprehensive oil analysis program. They also spend large somes of money on purifiers and huge cans filled with oil filters. I was on a USN cruiser for some four years with diesel engines that had 300 gallon tanks that got fuel dilution. That oil was changed ASAP. We were also having to add oil to those engines because of the amount they burned when not loaded up hard.
Any of the autos I owned called for 2,500 to 5,000 mile oil changes.
Any of the autos I owned called for 2,500 to 5,000 mile oil changes.
Willie B
Senior Member
My Father was Bomber mechanic four years in WWII, then another two years Korean Conflict. These planes weren't expected to last a year, but oils were stored & shipped back to a refinery to be renewed.
I'm sure the molecule that makes up oil doesn't much change except oil burning on the cylinder walls, then transferring to below the piston by reciprocating or blow by. It sure does get contaminated! In my observations, diesels much worse than gasoline engines.
I'm sure the molecule that makes up oil doesn't much change except oil burning on the cylinder walls, then transferring to below the piston by reciprocating or blow by. It sure does get contaminated! In my observations, diesels much worse than gasoline engines.
funwithfuel
Senior Member
I think it's more about the whole combustion process that degrades the oil and additives . We used to maintain a fleet of converted gas-jobs running CNG. The drained oil looked as good as what we were putting in. No soot or burnt hydrocarbons to get suspended. We never sampled those so i have no idea if the additive package was compromised.
Pony
Senior Member
So if the base oil is "good", is it not economical to have a more efficient filter to clean contaminates and add new "additives"?
Willie B
Senior Member
We deal with generators, near all of them run on propane. We do service on them at least annually. Oil is not black, but always cloudy, (water). A few machines will be in special locations where oil gets quite milky. One, on a lake, we change oil twice a year to control how much water it contains.
Recent installs, we put them on a "table" 2' above grade. I believe it helps limit exposure to snow & rain. Crankcase vent is to the air filter, still somehow it finds its way in.
John C.
Senior Member
Most of the generator site for cell towers around here have auto start and run for an hour or so scheduled to reduce the amount of moisture that accumulates in the engine oil. Warm it up above the dew point and the heat drives it out as vapor. The burning of propane also generates plenty of water. Run a salamander in a closed space for any amount of time and you will see the water droplets forming on every cool surface.
When you speak of filtering you have to be careful of what type of contamination you might be taking out of the oil. Additive packages have a lot of large molecules that can be taken out of the oil with the contamination particles in the filters. Putting those additive molecules back in oil is not as easy as just dumping a bottle of liquid into a tank of oil either. Blending them in evenly surely would be a complicated process in the oil pan of an engine.
When you speak of filtering you have to be careful of what type of contamination you might be taking out of the oil. Additive packages have a lot of large molecules that can be taken out of the oil with the contamination particles in the filters. Putting those additive molecules back in oil is not as easy as just dumping a bottle of liquid into a tank of oil either. Blending them in evenly surely would be a complicated process in the oil pan of an engine.
Willie B
Senior Member
"Most of the generator site for cell towers around here have auto start and run for an hour or so scheduled to reduce the amount of moisture that accumulates in the engine oil. Warm it up above the dew point and the heat drives it out as vapor. The burning of propane also generates plenty of water. Run a salamander in a closed space for any amount of time and you will see the water droplets forming on every cool surface."
These run 15 minutes a week. I don't believe the oil gets hot enough to separate oil from water. Still it is a mystery how some are a real problem with moisture, others not a problem at all.
These run 15 minutes a week. I don't believe the oil gets hot enough to separate oil from water. Still it is a mystery how some are a real problem with moisture, others not a problem at all.
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
Which generators do you see the most water in?
Willie B
Senior Member
Air cooled Generac home standby units is what I sell. We service any other brand anyone asks us to. I can't say one manufacturer is worse than another. My theory is running short periods, never under load, if it happens to be snowing, or drifting, even just foggy, it gets moisture.
I see a relative few liquid cooled machines, cost is the only deterrent.
I see a relative few liquid cooled machines, cost is the only deterrent.
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
Reason I asked, is air cooled Generac units for the most part run a 5 minute exercise cycle.
Air over oil cooler with no thermostat and air cooled engine fins with no regulation, the thing does not get warm enough to burn off anything.
We set them to exercise biweekly or monthly to keep the water contamination down somewhat. But the poco shuts us off enough here that that burns the water out once in a while as well.
Air over oil cooler with no thermostat and air cooled engine fins with no regulation, the thing does not get warm enough to burn off anything.
We set them to exercise biweekly or monthly to keep the water contamination down somewhat. But the poco shuts us off enough here that that burns the water out once in a while as well.