Pucker factor working on this stream bank.

Long story short, I don't agree with the "plan" on this job, but it's what the customer wants. I am lowering rip rap rock down as low as I can safely down a rather steep 30ft deep stream bank with my 28ton excavator. The Bank is sloped but not 30*. maybe 20* but I am going to try to get a better estimate. It's a big drop off.

Question is am a sane doing this with the excavator? I ran a couple test passes and I am not walking my tracks to the edge. It's frustrating because i cannot see what I am doing but if that bank shears, I am dead.

Hoping I am just being overly cautious here? Soils are mostly loam. I am sure there is some clay but this is a stream area so a lot of silt.

Not sure would even care to try that without first benching a lane to set Low materials and refill/regrade as come out. Would step back explain the hazards and if ignored allow someone else the dubious honors.

This sounds silly but could you strap a big mirror to your excavator in such a way you could see what's going on under you?

That sounds like a scary job!

There are wireless camera kits on amazon that connect to an iphone. Epoxy a magnet to the camera, with a battery pack, and it's a cheap and easy way to see whats going on when you're blind.

That said, If a 28ton shovel fits, any reason a long reach wouldn't? Would set you further back from the edge, and likely safer.

I'm not a fan of risking my equipment to save a client a buck.

If you cannot see the slope it is impossible to put rip-rap or anything else on it without creating a horrendous mess.
What is the length of the slope ?
Any chance you could cut the top back to create a 2:1 or better yet 3:1 slope ?
The chances of the material staying in place would be much better.
Are you going to use a loader and gravel box or dump the rip-rap over the edge ?
I'm curious how deep the water is at the toe of the slope because that also contributes to how far the backhoe needs to reach.

OK, good to hear I am not over thinking this project. There is a little vertical lip right at the top 3ft that I intend to lay back to try to get visibility. I took one look at this job and told the owner no. I could tell the guy was getting desperate. I told him I cannot even get material to the bottom. He was just shoving it off the ledge and much was rolling into the water. I ran a small test bucket and it seemed to place very well. I just went off feel. I can see the top of my bucket, just not where material is releasing.

I can tell you a long reach "sounds" right for the job until you see the trees. There is zero was a long reach could operate. I am having the owner cut tons of limbs right now just so I can try to move in there. I am moving like a snail in there. Every move is calculated. Counterweight is 3ft from a shed.

I really do need to find a camera solution!!!!! I need one at the back of the machine anyway. I want to look at the tech that truck and equipment OEMs are now using where they have a few cams, and a virtual overhead view. That would really be nice.

Oh, I discussed with the owner before job that I cannot get good placement of material. He just wants me to do what I can to get it down the slope, and he is sending a few guys down there to place it by hand.

Current water depth is about 2-3ft which is normal level, but I was shocked that the channel can get up to about 80% full! That is river type capacity! The rock being placed is big. around 1-2ft diam. I am only there to attempt to get material down the slope a bit, not place and set it. I also realize all this effort is futile and a much better plan should be formulated, but FEMA and the Army would need to get involved. It needs a very serious rebuild.

Any possibility of using a shallow barge and spud held work barge?

You are certainly handicapped by the trees and shed. It will be quite challenge for you.
I certainly understand the landowners concerns.
I was also in the same situation. I have photos taken by my grandfather about 1935 and from them I knew at least 30 feet of the river bank had eroded until I started my repairs.
I had vertical drop-offs in several places. I was fortunate enough to have a couple of demolition and concrete contractors that brought me clean concrete from their various jobs.
I built out the slope toes until I was able to have 3:1 slopes when I was done.
There were quite a few areas that I had to extend the tops of slopes because of severe erosion at the top.
The longest finished slopes were about 30 feel long.
It took me several years to get the the quantity of concrete I needed to finish the project.
I would conservatively guess it took about 700 loads of material.

Just the fact that you are concerned about the safety says something is not right. I would bench it, or it wouldn't get done. If they are not using some type of fabric to help stablize under the rock, it will all slide down in the first big rain anyway

I put a cheap camera system on the Menzi for about $200 with 4 cameras and a monitor. It's wired but that's no big deal unless you want to put cameras on stakes driven into the ground to view your work area from different angles several yards away from the machine.

Pictures of the job would certainly help formulate some opinions on what you are attempting to do.

Customers (homeowners) are generally terrible about wanting to do everything on the cheap, especially in dicey conditions like you have described. If the soil is terrible and unstable, stabilization with earth anchors and fabric might be the smartest solution for the customer. Look and Manta Ray earth anchors and Geo-Cell type fabric products that can be filled with stone or soil and provide a long term solution on slopes.

If the slope is only 20 degrees or so, that should be a cake walk. 30 is not too bad if the soil is good but getting beyond 35 is where things can change up quickly. If you have access from the bottom of the slope, a tracked dumper would be great but I understand the water is likely too deep. I've placed a lot of rock with my dumper (Yanmar C60R) over the years and even dumped 1/2 loads while sitting on a 30 degree side slope - THAT was pucker factor the first time! The fastest way to cover a slope with a dumper is from the bottom of the slope and backing up the hill at a slight 10-20 degree angle. Start dumping at the top of the slope and spread downward at the angle. After the first full line is done top to bottom, follow a parallel path starting again backing up to the top. Any rolling rocks will be caught in the first pass of material. Detail out with a hoe bucket as needed between passes. Even from the top, if the soil is decent, a dumper will run up and down a 35 degree slope with ease. You might need to lighten the load if it gets much over 30 degrees to retain good braking control.

Another idea is to take a long conveyor belt and strap it into a U shape with cable or rope. Build a lift handle at the ends for gripping with the bucket. If you can dump into that channel, it should slow the rocks decent rate. It would take some complex winching to control it but it might work for a better placement of the materials. Concrete chute with chain curtain brakes near the end might also work. Use your imagination for alternatives.

Are you standing up and still no visibility?

lol. I'm certain I can see if I stand. But I won't set my tracks like that. I am purposely putting the idlers forward so if something happens, I have time and/or options.

Happy to report that job is going better than expected. I was able to establish about a 30* bank, it gave me enough visibility to mostly see what was happening. I am moving like a snail but the words "you have exceeded my expectations" from the customer tells me he is happy.

I will give you a few details. counterweight 2ft from a shed, 4ft from the edge of a cliff, and trees everywhere. Every move is calculated and I have to jog machine about 50ft to get rock, back up about 10ft so I can swing, track another 40ft to place material while avoiding a tree that is rooted in the bank I am sitting on.

I am mentally exhausted, but I am not rushing the job. I only have 2.5 tandem loads of rock left to place.

fastline said:

lol. I'm certain I can see if I stand. But I won't set my tracks like that. I am purposely putting the idlers forward so if something happens, I have time and/or options.

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of course not. I had to get traffic past me and I was also sitting on the first course of pavement. I just wondered if it was that far out of sight.

Do NOT envy some of the predicaments you Ex guys get into!!

Old Story to make this longer and more boring. Worked for a Surplus Dealer in SLC Eons ago, sold rehabbed and repurposed Deuces, 5/4 Gators, even some Gamma Goats on occasion along with Five tonners, mainly Dump Trucks and the old Wreckers then he managed to get hands on 3 M88 Retrievers, Gasoline Powered AIR Cooled V12 Cylinder engines. Worked my butt off trying to sell ONE, and then a blind call to UP&L gained me a interview with a Test Trial. Had ONE unit brought up a mountain to a Natural Gas Pipeline work site to a compressor station being built and needing a Winch Machine to relieve two needed elsewhere High Dollar D8s. Arrived at the site, transport following slowly behind to find the two 8s asses to the road edge cables taught as banjo strings and bumping.

Soon enough we were speaking and the site manager who was leery of the machine said time to put up or shut up as a guy came crawling over that same road edge climbing the cables. Ended up the 88 had cables played out on snatch blocks down to the Ex the site crew had anchored to the 8s. Indian(US Native Fella) was inhaling his bottled lunch and nerve where as he descended back to the ex, he secured the snatch blocks leaving the M88 to draw up and relieve the 8s to go to other duties, the Indian then proceeded to cut trench for a later to arrive Pipeline Crew to lay the line coming to that compressor station. Two Retrievers were purchased to do this one type job, to retain the anchorage for the Ex working that steep slope and becoming the motive power to drag it up the hill as trench was dug. Indian was 2/3 to the wind so to speak on some smooth hooch to gain enough nerve to be suspended on cables dangling watching death stare back at him. Job finished Early, the bonus I received from the Utility was well worth the song and dance I had to play to get the machines sold, they were later sold to a individual and lost in transfers, have no idea whatever happened to the crazy Indian.

Accorded the work site foreskin, NEVER Happened, NO evidence to corroborate, and no one was injured on that site, Stock in the Hooch company SOARED. This could NOT EVER happen in today's work site environs.

Interesting Story and equipment. Have driven the Gamma Goat.

Goats were a BAD design for Amphib, turn too tight they would capsize and sink like a Lead Block, do well on snow so long as wear hearing protection for the Screamin Demon sitting aside the operator.

Went to work one morning after being gone two weeks suggested by Boss, noticed gates closed and appeared yard was mostly Empty, scanned thru the front glass and literally NOTHING visible, no parts, no file cabinets, NOTHING. Black Suburbans rolled up, couple guys bailed and began throwing questions, who was I , why did I stop, Why was I looking etc etc etc. Turned out thru a little 'detectiving' and watching the news the owners were Fleeing the Country, Shipped almost every piece of machinery and parts they could move over a month I thought were just sales shipments, after hours(several Mechanics were ALSO Out Country). Had a Rail Siding near the lot and supposedly had seen rail cars loaded with the merchandise headed out of town Flats and Boxcars. Rail loads transferred to ships and GONE, parts Unknown and Illegal as all get out to ship US Mil Surplus anywhere Out Country. End of that year did not receive a W2 from that company(Imagine That!), Filing Accountant used my pay stubs to try to make a return but was rejected as NEVER BEEN FILED UNDER MY SSN. Seems the 'Taxes and SSA/MED' reductions went into THEIR Pockets. Just offhand figuring with all the employees at the yard, made off with a couple tens of thou, JUST in that money, they also never filed Income reports or Taxes for the sales, ALL went to Private Off Shored Accounts!!!

BTW, Sorry to shanghai the post!!