GPS anyone?

I know a few guys on here use GPS. I got my first good run using a rover today. What an awesome tool! Some of our excavators and dozers are equipped with GPS, but we have a dedicated grade engineer on the job who runs around with a rover. Today he put me in charge of setting hubs for a road, the GPS makes it very easy work. Sure I could have used a laser, but I have the plans right there on the screen, I know exactly where everything is supposed to go, right at my fingertips. We run Trimble GPS exclusively and have had good luck with the system, so I'm told, I just started with the company little over a month ago. I know GPS is incredibly expensive to set up and maintain, but it would've taken me practically all day to do what took me 2 hours or less with GPS.

We have it on our finish dozers, but I haven't been trained on it yet. Its going to be weird not having a set of plans to haul around.

CascadeScaper said:

I know a few guys on here use GPS. I got my first good run using a rover today. What an awesome tool! Some of our excavators and dozers are equipped with GPS, but we have a dedicated grade engineer on the job who runs around with a rover. Today he put me in charge of setting hubs for a road, the GPS makes it very easy work. Sure I could have used a laser, but I have the plans right there on the screen, I know exactly where everything is supposed to go, right at my fingertips. We run Trimble GPS exclusively and have had good luck with the system, so I'm told, I just started with the company little over a month ago. I know GPS is incredibly expensive to set up and maintain, but it would've taken me practically all day to do what took me 2 hours or less with GPS.

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just hang on to it my friend you will soon learn it is the best thing that ever been developedi have been using trimble/accuhrade for almost 3 years now and still gets impressed with it i work direcly for caterpillar in th danish rental store so gets the newest stuff as one of the first

has you got any questions about the system just ask and ill try to help you

Gps

Hi Cascade,
Our company uses the TopCon GPS system... we have a two man 'in-house' survey crew that was first (in the company) to get online with the system and test it's reliability. Everyone from top to bottom was EXTREMELY impressed with it's capabilities and accuracy after they got past the initial headaches of setting everything up and breaking it down every morning and evening. We have since invested in the fully automated grade control system for our new CAT D-6K for which I am the only operator. The rover allows the survey crew to work VERY efficiently,:cool2 as long as the young man who knows how it works holds on to it. As for the dozer, with patience and close attention to detail, me and my dozer (with GPS), an operator with a paddle pan and a laborer on a smooth drum roller can eliminate the need for a standard fine grading crew, EVEN the motor grader. I can consistently fine grade everything from pads to roads, parking lots, landscape areas and even offset the grade and make the cut for the curbing crew. First time 'viewers' complain about how slow you have to keep the machine going... but when you do the math, I can grade everything, to much tighter tolerances, in much less time than a standard crew with stakes and a good grade man can. Saves time... well, because it's faster, saves man hours due to the amount of people required, and saves fuel because fewer machines are needed and produces a nearly perfect finish product. Some people, like my super, think that a motor grader HAS to touch EVERYTHING for it to be 'done'... but noone has any complaints when the certification crews sends the shop an e-mail stating that my building pads are within +/-.05!! It CAN be done, with a DOZER... I am single handedly reducing the need for good grader operators in our company.

Before any grader operators jump down my throat, notice that I said REDUCING, not eliminating. There will always be a need for graders and their extremely talented operators:notworthy, and there are a good number of things that a grader can do the I cannot, however, the truth is that a good GPS equipped finish dozer like my D-6K can produce fine graded materials to tolerances that few grader hands have the patience to match.

I know that I have spoken alot more about GPS dozers than survey rovers... but the same is true with these devices. A well trained 'kid' (by some folks standards) can do alot of the same tasks that a seasoned survey crew with a total station can do IN WAY LESS TIME.

GPS doesn't MAKE you a good operator... it makes a good operator better, all you need is patience and attention to detail. On the same note... a GPS rover won't make a high school punk a certified land surveyor, however, in skilled hands, these things can do AMAZING things.

Thank you for reading rant on GPS:usa

GPS on Graders

I have uploaded plans on a grader at the petro can refinery expansion in edmonton. Disappeared for a couple of days came back on site just to certify that is was done right. This was with an "Old School" operator that I had to sit in the cab and argue with in order for him to use Accugrade. After a while he would not use a grader without it. I spent a couple of hours a day for a week or two in order to get him comfortable with the GPS system. now that grader can do the job of 2 or 3. There are still limits with the system like in couare material but with finish grading it is amazing.

Owners are not wanting to spend the money on GPS saying it is expensive but any seasoned person have lost days production, ripper out pipe or curb due to a survey mistake. How much did this cost. :beatsme GPS will not remove survey mistakes but it just anouther ( and a good one ) to help stop them.

Just reminder about GPS, Its only as good as the information put into it. Ive used it on several jobs, most were good. But ive been on some real disaster jobs. Mostly due to changes at the last minute. It basically made the gps worthless. Other than that, it cut our grading time in half if not more. When we first got a D5N with trimble on it, we graded a target parking lot in no time. In fact we graded it so fast the office had us regrade the whole lot again.

The best part was you could actually see perfect lows, and highs per plan design. The worst part was watching the paving contractor come in with a grader and wipe everything out before they started placing stone. Apparently they really do decide how the site looks after we leave.

Like I say, only as good as the info put into them. Other than that issue, Awesome!

That's a good point, Turbo. It's worthless if there need to be immediate changes. We just had a D6R w/ PAT dropped off today with GPS, we have 7 of them I believe. We'll be using it later in the week to grade the flat bottom of a parking garage we're working on. W

I just love the rover, having the plans right there is nice. I don't have every last details, but as long as I know where to set my hubs and the elevation is zero'd, I'm good to fly. Makes quick, quick work of road hub setting. Sure you can use a dual plane laser, but it's only good until the first bend. Even then, you're limited by distance at some point and you can only do 1 shoulder plus the centerline at one time. There is still a market for lasers, though, I used 2 simultaneously today. They still do things that GPS cannot. However for grading, GPS is king if you can afford to keep it running. I'm hoping I get a chance to play with our 6R and give the GPS a run, it's all automatic.

For dead-nuts accuracy, you can't beat a laser. But for bulk dirt placement GPS is definately the way to go. Sure, GPS has some drawbacks and quite a steep learning curve, but anyone who has run it for a while will agree it's just adds so much productivity you're crazy not to have it.

just had a trimble gps installed on a 330 hitaichi with a 60' long reach boom for inwater work. the only problem we have had is working in an area below a sheet pile wall with docks all around causing loss of sat coverage from time to time. we hope to eliminate that with the new left reciever that will read the glosnas soviet sat system as well as ours. it is working great for us now. the operator spent 8 hours with the trimble man and has a good working knowledge. it is really user friendly. there are things like using the offsets that he has to stop and think about, however with the cheat sheets it is easy to figure out. we had several sheets surveyed and when he sets the bucket on any of them with good coverage and on the fine mode he is within 2 to 6 hundredths. as we have a +/- 5 tenths on the under water excavation so we are good to go. looking forward to mounting it on a dozer.

I didn't have time to talk to our GPS guy today, we have one guy in the company that managed our Trimble system. I wanted to get a little more info about the tolerances when mounted to our 6R's, I think it's within a tenth I want to say. We have a few PC400's with GPS, but mainly just the dozers and of course the rovers.

Gps

We have 2 GPS base stations, 2 GPS rovers, A JD 850, 750, and 450 dozer set up, all fully auto, we also have 2 of our Case Quad Tracks with K-tecs set up with GPS. It is all Topcon Equipment. The scrapers work incredible!! I made some custom cables, mounts, and GPS pole. Pics to follow.

Finish Dozer hands ?

This is an interesting read, about accuracy of operators with GPS.

All good dozer hands can hold +or- .05' grade accuracy up here in Alaska . Without any machine electronic aids. This is mostly commercial work. The work is checked by laser.

The same with excavator operators , grade checked with laser.

Geez even a good Catskinner with a Big Cat , D8,D9, can hold within one tenth . No sweat !

Depending on the job and client , tolerances vary as to what is acceptable. Due to weather,remoteness of job, contract end, materials, manpower,etc.

What I am seeing now, on extreme high traffic road jobs, is that they will , get grade close as possible in time allotted (urban areas) and, lay asphalt down for morning traffic , and later lay a finish grade asphalt course.

What I have seen in the field, is the Poor Satellite coverage , even with the Russian's coverage, the weather , time of day, topography of terrain, the accuracy still varies, as to location.

So Alaska may be behind of the rest of the Nation in Satellite coverage, to produce the consistent desireable accuracy.

Meantime our Grader, Dozer, Excavator Operators continue to produce work within any tolerances required. :usa

I'm a believer in automation and GPS for sure, but as was stated previously, a good dozer man is still valuable without it. I work for an outfit that the two owners work side by side with the rest of us hands doing everything. The one owner is an unbelievably exceptional operator when it comes to fine grade. This guy has an eye. I brought the subject up of GPS during coffee yesterday, simply because the subdivision we're wrapping up now is gridlocked with grade stakes, but being a small company (12 or so employees,) it's a little pricey to get set up with. It sure is a great tool though in terms of layout. We have an independent survey crew do all the layout on everything, with a rover. Unfortunately he walks around with a hammer and a bag of stakes with it.

Northart said:

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What I have seen in the field, is the Poor Satellite coverage , even with the Russian's coverage, the weather , time of day, topography of terrain, the accuracy still varies, as to location.

So Alaska may be behind of the rest of the Nation in Satellite coverage, to produce the consistent desireable accuracy.

Meantime our Grader, Dozer, Excavator Operators continue to produce work within any tolerances required. :usa

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I am a surveyor and have been using GPS pretty-well since it's inception (late '80's early 90's). GPS unfortunately is limited by the way the satellites orbit the globe in their inclination to the earth's axis. Basically the further you go north (or south) towards the earth's poles, the more the satellites will be concentrated in the southern part of your horizon (in the northern hemishpere, and in the northern part of your horizon in the southern hemisphere) - your field of view. One way to avoid loss of signal (and increase production) is to make sure that your antenna is mounted so that any blockage to a satellite path is minimised to the south when working in the high latitudes in the northern hemisphere (as you are in Alaska). You can sometimes do this by just turning a machine around or being aware of antenna mounting locations.

I haven't been involved with GPS in your application mounted directly on dozers for grading roadworks yet, but I am glad it's become this mainstream that everyone can get a benefit from it.

And the guy who said garbage in - garbage out is 100% right. Beware. Keep your plans handy. Double-check everything.

The best utilization of GPS controlled equipment is for bulk placement of dirt. There's no wondering how much cut or fill you have. No need to work around grade stakes or having to restake. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to use for fine grading, but that's all that a lot of people think that it is good for. We have it mounted on a D6M and I sure wish we would have put it on a bigger machine. I would rather just hog it in quick, get it within a tenth, and then strike it off with a blade if the conditions are right.

It's truly amazing hearing how great GPS and lasers are and how great the grades can be put. Too bad NONE of the companies in OHIO use them while working on the interstate system(though I have seen dozers with the pods on the blades). The finish work on highway/bridges approaches are hideous and I can't for the life of me understand why they can't seem to get them to line up?? I'm talking 1-2' differences in height between the road surface and the bridge. It will litereally throw you outta the seat in a big truck if you don't watch(and have seat belt on).

Some states the roads are flawless and smooth as glass.............it just ain't Ohio.

Freighttrain, most companies doing heavy highway work use GPS. In fact, Kokosing, one of the big ohio players, uses GPS all the time. Last I knew all their graders were set up with GPS, Im not really sure if they have any old school grader guys that can do it by ass. I think what you experience is more along the lines of engineering screw ups, or lack of thinking when it comes to grades on approaches

Ya, Kokosing does most of the work around here(seen them on rt71), I think Kenmore did most of the rt77 rebuild thru Canton the last 10 yrs(ya, 10 yrs and it's finally done). You don't want to drive a big truck around here...it will send you outta the seat! Ya, I know.

Rt 21 north of Massillon is absolutely sick when it comes to approach angles and severe changes in altitude in very short distances. It's all new, but can't say it's better then before.

I have to laugh about it because it's so BAD..........you can't believe anyone used even a piece of string when they finished the grades around here. It looks like everything was an afterthought.

Yea, im familiar with Ohio roads. Thing is, being from Mi. You dont want to drive a big truck in Ohio.

i worked on interstate 77 last year north of Akron. We used GPS on our dozers to grade the subgrade, then it was Cement Stabilized. We then trimmed it with a CMI trimmer with a Millimeter GPS system. Let me tell you it rode nice!! 65 MPH on dirt and it was perfect. Then they stoned it and graded it with a Robotic Total station and Grader, then paved. The job would have been perfect and rode awsome except for the bump guys, i mean bridge guys. Bridges are alot harder to get correct grades than dirt.