Tree clearing technique?

Willie B said:

I destroyed a monster rock I hadn't been able to lift.
A second 12 foot long boulder I wasn't able to fully expose. My goal is to break it enough to be below grade, or enough to move.

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Pionjar rock hammer (or Chinese YN27 on Ebay) and non explosive blasting grout. I cut out a nice fire pit in granite ledge at the camp in Maine with that stuff. Easy to shear off 10"-12" thick slabs with that method. Drill 1.5" holes in suggested pattern, mix grout with water, pour into holes and wait 6-12 hrs and everything is split with nearly 20,000 psi pressure on the rock. The grout is relatively cheap and fairly safe to handle.

Maybe I'll explore that. I find these rocks are hard! A rotary hammer ruins a bit fast.

Evening Digger said:

All good ideas and thanks.

Here's what's worked well for me. I'll dig a trench maybe 8-10 feet wide, about 8' deep, and usually 25-30 feet long or so. At one end I'll slope the end at about a 45 degree angle. I put the fan on this sloped end so that it's pointing down into the trench. Start fire in trench and turn on fan once it's beginning to burn.

This gets really hot inside the trench. The bigger the fan you have the faster it will burn. I've used a 4' shop fan with good results. My current fan is something left over from smoke evacuation on a restaurant. It's fairly big but not like treemuncher's beast.

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I don't know if he's used it yet but my brother made a fan out of an old silage blower.

bam1968 said:

If there are just a handful of large trees then I try to make my piles as close to them as possible. That usually cuts down on the mess quite a bit.

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I try to keep piles close to where I'm clearing but have found that it's better to put them either on top of a hill or down on low flat areas. Erosion is a big problem here and a burning a pile on a side hill can start a washout that can be difficult to get fixed.

I do my clearing with a loader. Usually clear all the small stuff and clean up then take big trees out. We like to burn as we go, you can keep bunching pile and almost have a complete burn. I have a 200 excavator to dig stumps and usually get them out and dig the hole a few feet deeper then roll the stump in upside down and bury it. With the hedge you should be able to really burn the piles. I've seen pile of them burn to nothing but ashes. Try and watch the amount of dirt you get pushing up piles. Dozers are terrible about putting as much dirt as trees in a pile. With the loader I roll the bunches before I get to the pile to get most of the dirt out of them. Those hedge are terrible to push sometimes they are so wooly.

To help start a fire and keep it burning, tires are illegal, but in my state its legal to burn waste oil or any type of fuel in order to get the material to burn, its not allowed to basically use the material as a reason to burn the fuel.

We've used about everything there is to get fires going, most of what we've used was given to me, as in vandalized vehicles and equipment fuel that was contaminated with something and nobody would take it, at one time we had a couple thousand gallons of waste junk to burn up and get rid of, most of the diesel was contaminated with acid and the gasoline with water or some chemicals, the waste oil, I really have no idea what was in it but the thing I've learned is this, if its free, you really don't want it. We've only used a 20lb lp tank and weed burner for decades now, one 20 lb tank will enough to burn 20 acres of green live timber, maybe even more if the weather cooperates.

I usually tell people we're going to burn, if there is something you'd like to get rid of and doesn't contain steel or nails, bring it out and toss it on, after all its your fire use it to get rid of the stuff you don't want laying around, beyond that it really doesn't take much to get and keep a fire going.

Dry dead material any idiot can burn, live green or water logged material needs to be handled, prepped and burned in a far different method than dry, different species of tree's need a different approach in order to get to burn, green willows four feet in diameter takes a far different approach than a foot diameter green oak tree or cedar, same goes for brush or anything else, humidity, wind speed, temps all play a huge role as well, along with the time of year, in the dead of winter when the tree's are drier, is much easier than the spring time when the sap is heading up into the tree and literally making the tree's wetter.

Blowers and things might be needed in some areas and under some conditions to get stuff to burn, in my area I've never used or needed them, I personally think they are a waste of time and money, other areas and different conditions if I lived there, I might feel differently and use them. I know people around me use blowers, have for years and still get marginal results in burning green material. I've burned green stuff every day while it was raining if the mud wasn't too bad to deal with and no issues whatever getting all the stuff burned up.

It gets down to experience, what your dealing with and the conditions your doing it in and how much is wanting to be spent to get the job done and the equipment you have to do it with. Every job is different, each takes a different approach to get the wanted end result, there is no such thing as a one size fits all, never has been never will be and 20 different people will do the exact same job 20 different ways to get it done, doesn't make one right and the other 19 wrong, as they say to each his own and if the job gets done to the person doing the hiring satisfaction, then it was done correctly.

That 12' rock I had partially buried, I used an old half sheet of 1/4" plate as a fire back. Between it & the rock I placed 1/8 cord of cut & split white pine. Pine was wet, so I doused it with old gas drained from old tractors. First fire I got some breakage, but not what I hoped.
Next burn, I placed the sheet steel other side of the rock. More breakage, but still not what I hoped.
Third fire was the charm! It broke an end off the rock, maybe 1/3 total volume. I was then able to move it a bit & it started coming apart in big chunks. Roughly 11 tons total. I couldn't carry all the pieces in one load with my truck.
About 1/2 cord of wood, 5 gallons of gasoline, 10 gallons of OLD home heating oil with water in it.

It's a lot easier to burn piles if the big trees are logged out. Most are oak with a mix of elms, maples and a few others. We've just found you have to keep pushing them up tight to keep them hot.

I just dug a lake that was had lots of big random rocks in it. The biggest I loaded on a trailer for a friend to put at his driveway. It was 10.5 tons on the scales. 973 handled it fairly easy and we pulled it off rolling on pipes with a 6h.

The glow on the Northern horizon tonight is me. Pay no attention. Everything is under control. Black spruce is like a torch.

The problem with logging out the larger logs is nobody wants them, if loggers won't take them because they won't even make RR ties, you can't give them away in the scale and volume needed to keep ahead of what we burn on a regular basis. When everyone else has picked over and removed what they want, as in loggers, wood cutters and everyone else, all the rest gets put in piles and burned.

By the way if anyone ever finds a use for box elder or willow let me know, I'd gladly give them a few million trees every year, for free, they'd even come with a volume discount, when you get into the billions, LOL. As for setting up a business selling cut and split firewood, we've thought about that, the pay is much better to be paid to burn the stuff in piles verses the expense and headaches of dealing with the firewood business, that and nobody wants to pay for boxelder cut split and delivered. As for the all the rest of the larger species, those cottonwoods, willow, burr oak, that get up and larger than five feet in diameter, those are mostly rotten and hollow at that point and only belong in a fire or contain enough metal from fence posts, staples or wire once burned someone could sell scrap metal from the ashes if they had enough time and interest to do so.

Amish saw mills are begging for pallet logs and railroad tie logs. Just logged my farm and everything is as high as the logger has seen it. Loads of stave white oak logs brought more than he has ever sold loads for. Pallet is anything that will make a board almost. The last great big lake we did that was around 18 acres the logging more than paid for all the brush removal. Same for a pasture we cleared last year. We've got a 30 to 40 acre lake in the works that has that much brush, we'll see how that one works out.

There aren't many loggers where I am in southern Iowa and they seem only to want walnut or oak. I did talk to one about logging my ash that is beginning to die....too many for me to saw into lumber. He was only offering about $20 per tree. The only thing I have that might be of interest to Amish pallet sawmills is some honey locust but I don't like spreading the thorns all over the pasture logging them out. (Hard on cattle hooves) Cottonwood is possible but I'd rather leave them standing.

If you have ash, and its only starting to die, get rid of it now for whatever price you can get. The ash bore went through years ago now, maybe six-seven years back, those ash trees are only worth logging for the first year or two, after that nobody wants them and you don't either, they rot fast and are really dangerous to clear or grub after about 4-5 years due to being so rotten. We're clearing off dead ash right now on a five acre timber that the owner just purchased this summer, they are so dangerous he wants them all taken down so he can even safely walk around his newly purchased timber and reseed some nicer quality trees where these all stood. We finally ended up cutting them off with a feller buncher because they are far too dangerous to even drive dozers around, just the ground shaking will bring them down all around you as you track through the timber. They are impossible to grub safely with an excavator, if you even attempt to push the tree over, the top comes back onto the excavator even with a gentle nudge.

Anything you can turn into cash and eliminate a later liability hazard is well worth it from what I've seen and the tens of thousands of dead ash I've already removed.

Nothing worse than pushing a bunch of dead trees. Seems no matter how gentle you walk up to them the top wants to fold over on you. Tree pushing is one of the more dangerous jobs in the construction world. I've had logs come threw the side doors, big limbs come out of it seems no where and hit your arms and hands. An eye opening experience when a big limb jumping over the bucket and stopping a foot in front of your face when it comes threw the windshield. I used to be kind of wild at it but these days I'll pick a couple three trees out at a time and take them to the pile.

Randy's right sell everything you can if you are clearing it all, stumps suck but so does a stump on a big tree. At least you can sort the stumps out separate instead of digging them out of a burnt pile.

Just looked at a ravine a few days ago, what a mess, the owner didn't want the box elders so he went in and killed them years ago with chemicals, so they all stand there dead, then the ash bore came through and killed every ash tree in the ravine. Now ever single tree is dead and falling over, more with every wind storm that comes along and he's given up trying to combine along it, as he drives by the vibration drops trees ahead and behind him and a few too close for comfort so now its been decided to clear them all out.......citing safety reasons.

Nice theory, not yet sure how to remove 500 plus dead tree's too dangerous to even walk around, let alone run machinery around...............

The ironic part of the whole deal is this, his wife is beyond upset, feeling they are too dangerous to be around and won't let him go near them at all, his kids are upset and think the whole situation is a death trap ready to kill anyone who gets too close [kind of agree with them on that issue] and now the insurance company is stating the dead tree's are a liability issue and need to be removed or they might cancel his liability insurance on all his property [so far only verbal threats, nothing stated in writing] in attempts to get them all gone.

So I need to provide proof of insurance and sign a waiver to even do the job.

Now I'm pretty sure everyone else turned this guy down and was thinking along those lines myself, when it was brought to my attention, anyone can buy their own personal flame thrower, that can shoot flames up to 100 feet, that is legal. Now I honestly never thought I'd have a legitimate reason to ever own a flame thrower, let alone be considered a business tool and might even be tax deductible, let alone ever really want one before, but at this point in life, why not, I've burned standing dead tree's before that were too dangerous to get close to, granted not 500 at a time. But it does spark my curiosity somewhat, so the next stop is to speak with the fire chief and find out just how radical a person can get and still be considered legal and within the law.........and also what fines and penalties are if operating outside the law.

gwhammy said:

Nothing worse than pushing a bunch of dead trees. Seems no matter how gentle you walk up to them the top wants to fold over on you. Tree pushing is one of the more dangerous jobs in the construction world. I've had logs come threw the side doors, big limbs come out of it seems no where and hit your arms and hands. An eye opening experience when a big limb jumping over the bucket and stopping a foot in front of your face when it comes threw the windshield. I used to be kind of wild at it but these days I'll pick a couple three trees out at a time and take them to the pile.

Randy's right sell everything you can if you are clearing it all, stumps suck but so does a stump on a big tree. At least you can sort the stumps out separate instead of digging them out of a burnt pile.

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Dead trees with a top or big branches likely to break I'd rather pull down than saw or dozer blade. Some are so scary I use a stepladder to hook the snatch block. A tree trunk is a Hell of a lever.

A few years back I pushed down a 90' tall pine. It was dead & I knew it was likely to break. I convinced myself it'd fall the other way. Besides, I had a ROPS I'd be alright. About 4' Of 8" diameter tree trunk landed on my air intake 2' from me. I decided not to do that any more.

Randy88 said:

Just looked at a ravine a few days ago, what a mess, the owner didn't want the box elders so he went in and killed them years ago with chemicals, so they all stand there dead, then the ash bore came through and killed every ash tree in the ravine. Now ever single tree is dead and falling over, more with every wind storm that comes along and he's given up trying to combine along it, as he drives by the vibration drops trees ahead and behind him and a few too close for comfort so now its been decided to clear them all out.......citing safety reasons.

Nice theory, not yet sure how to remove 500 plus dead tree's too dangerous to even walk around, let alone run machinery around...............

The ironic part of the whole deal is this, his wife is beyond upset, feeling they are too dangerous to be around and won't let him go near them at all, his kids are upset and think the whole situation is a death trap ready to kill anyone who gets too close [kind of agree with them on that issue] and now the insurance company is stating the dead tree's are a liability issue and need to be removed or they might cancel his liability insurance on all his property [so far only verbal threats, nothing stated in writing] in attempts to get them all gone.

So I need to provide proof of insurance and sign a waiver to even do the job.

Now I'm pretty sure everyone else turned this guy down and was thinking along those lines myself, when it was brought to my attention, anyone can buy their own personal flame thrower, that can shoot flames up to 100 feet, that is legal. Now I honestly never thought I'd have a legitimate reason to ever own a flame thrower, let alone be considered a business tool and might even be tax deductible, let alone ever really want one before, but at this point in life, why not, I've burned standing dead tree's before that were too dangerous to get close to, granted not 500 at a time. But it does spark my curiosity somewhat, so the next stop is to speak with the fire chief and find out just how radical a person can get and still be considered legal and within the law.........and also what fines and penalties are if operating outside the law.

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Maybe an excavator with very long reach like they use to demo old buildings?

you can sit back far enough with a 300~400.
I dig the near side till I cut that root, then push it away. Never got close to it. I've laid down a handful of smaller dead hem/firs here with the 120. It takes time to look at the angles and the "what-ifs" before proceeding.
These ones were next door and the neighbor did not use the property there, but would mow the lawn under them. That drove me nuts so I took away the hazard one day.

Randy88 said:

Just looked at a ravine a few days ago, what a mess, the owner didn't want the box elders so he went in and killed them years ago with chemicals, so they all stand there dead, then the ash bore came through and killed every ash tree in the ravine. Now ever single tree is dead and falling over, more with every wind storm that comes along and he's given up trying to combine along it, as he drives by the vibration drops trees ahead and behind him and a few too close for comfort so now its been decided to clear them all out.......citing safety reasons.

Nice theory, not yet sure how to remove 500 plus dead tree's too dangerous to even walk around, let alone run machinery around...............

The ironic part of the whole deal is this, his wife is beyond upset, feeling they are too dangerous to be around and won't let him go near them at all, his kids are upset and think the whole situation is a death trap ready to kill anyone who gets too close [kind of agree with them on that issue] and now the insurance company is stating the dead tree's are a liability issue and need to be removed or they might cancel his liability insurance on all his property [so far only verbal threats, nothing stated in writing] in attempts to get them all gone.

So I need to provide proof of insurance and sign a waiver to even do the job.

Now I'm pretty sure everyone else turned this guy down and was thinking along those lines myself, when it was brought to my attention, anyone can buy their own personal flame thrower, that can shoot flames up to 100 feet, that is legal. Now I honestly never thought I'd have a legitimate reason to ever own a flame thrower, let alone be considered a business tool and might even be tax deductible, let alone ever really want one before, but at this point in life, why not, I've burned standing dead tree's before that were too dangerous to get close to, granted not 500 at a time. But it does spark my curiosity somewhat, so the next stop is to speak with the fire chief and find out just how radical a person can get and still be considered legal and within the law.........and also what fines and penalties are if operating outside the law.

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If you had two dozers and a long anchor chain you might be able to pull them down.....if you can keep the dozers in the clear. Large excavator is probably the most practical.

If you have enough protection you can confidently work under dead or rotten trees.
This particular paddock was 500 acres of dead timber that had been chemically treated.
We raked it into piles in three and a half days after pulling it with the two dozers.