Cat D4 7U 1956 motor indemnification?

iowahill · Oct 6, 2021

That should read "Identification"!

We bought the full manual set for our machine from Jen Sales, but the motor manual included is identified as a D6 with no mention of D4 anywhere. The general layout looks like our 4 cylinder but the fuel system and other elements are completely different. Perhaps one of the forum members can help me figure this out from a picture of the left side of our machine, and a shot of the block casting on the right side:

Thanks, -Tom

hector gemme · Oct 6, 2021

This machine is D4 you can see on radiator side and should be serie 7J or 2T these use the same block motor and you should have the small plate indentification on block rear the wire switch and bracket over the starting engine cluch housing.

Bluox · Oct 6, 2021

That governor set up is not for a 7U tractor motor.
Bob

iowahill · Oct 7, 2021

hector gemme said:
This machine is D4 you can see on radiator side and should be serie 7J or 2T these use the same block motor and you should have the small plate indentification on block rear the wire switch and bracket over the starting engine cluch housing.

This machine serial number identifies it as a D4 7U built in 1956 and has an electric starting motor and doesn't appear to have been set up for a pony motor, and I don't see the clutch housing though I may be overlooking it. The only plate I've see is the aluminum patent plate attached just above the starter. I'll look closer to see if I can find the plate you are referring to. -Tom

Bluox said:
That governor set up is not for a 7U tractor motor.
Bob

Thanks for the observation, Bob. Any idea what it is? Forum member Hector Gemme posted on my other thread regarding motor identification, "D4 7U should have a D315 motor... the picture motor is a 3400 or 4400... and the control governor isn't nice to see."

So now I'm even deeper in the weeds with trying to figure out what motor I'm dealing with and the correct governor for it. -Tom

Lumberjack Matt · Oct 7, 2021

Looks like the exhaust manifold is on the other side, definitely not a D315. Looks more like a D4400 off a D4-7J. Also appears to have some green paint underneath the yellow...interesting. If you aren't seeing the plate with the tractor number on the back of the block it might have been taken off. More pics would help identify it.

iowahill · Oct 7, 2021

Lumberjack Matt said:
Looks like the exhaust manifold is on the other side, definitely not a D315. Looks more like a D4400 off a D4-7J. Also appears to have some green paint underneath the yellow...interesting. If you aren't seeing the plate with the tractor number on the back of the block it might have been taken off. More pics would help identify it.

You and Hector Gemme may have solved the mystery Matt! Yes, there IS green paint under the old rattle can yellow on the block which I had guessed as once having been a government/forestry/reclamation machine bought surplus and used by a farming outfit in the Sacramento CA farming region where it was bought from. It had been down for some years before we got it and managed to get it running and transported up to our operation farther up the hills.

The tractor i.d. plate shows it as a D4 7U s/n 382407U which places it as a 1956 build (like my younger brother!). So it seems that perhaps this machine had a heart transplant at some time? This would explain the strangely modified engine cover and the external plumbing for the air intake over to the oil bath air cleaner too. Looks like I should be looking for the shop manual for a D4400 and/or D4-7J manual if this is a case of engine swap.

Gotta say that despite the horrible time we had getting it first started and all of the smoke and oil blow-by initially, by the time I drove it down our 1 mile dirt road to the property things seemed to start spinning in greased grooves. Once I have the right manuals to reference to I just might get the old gal working well enough to climb a tree or two! Many thanks to all of you folks for the guidance! -Tom

iowahill · Oct 7, 2021

Lumberjack Matt said:
Looks like the exhaust manifold is on the other side, definitely not a D315. Looks more like a D4400 off a D4-7J. Also appears to have some green paint underneath the yellow...interesting. If you aren't seeing the plate with the tractor number on the back of the block it might have been taken off. More pics would help identify it.

iowahill · Oct 7, 2021

I can get more pics next week when I go up to the mine if you let me know just what areas to shoot. As mentioned earlier, the only plate I saw was the aluminum patent numbers plate attached to the left rear of the block above the starter motor. -Tom

Lumberjack Matt · Oct 7, 2021

I found a video of someone starting up a D4400 and it's definitely your motor.

Someone has done some crazy stuff onto the governor to get it to fit apparently.
In the screenshot I have the tractor tag circled, which yours is obviously missing. The D4400 has about 10 less HP than the D315.

iowahill · Oct 7, 2021

Lumberjack Matt said:
I found a video of someone starting up a D4400 and it's definitely your motor.

Someone has done some crazy stuff onto the governor to get it to fit apparently.
In the screenshot I have the tractor tag circled, which yours is obviously missing. The D4400 has about 10 less HP than the D315.
View attachment 246481

That screen shot of yours pretty much tells the tale. I'll see what I can do to squeeze more HP out of what we have and leave the tree climbing to the squirrels and bears! Many thanks for you help on this Matt. Regards, -Tom F.

hector gemme · Oct 7, 2021

The aluminum tag should give the serie number and you should have a other tag on rear housing in same side

Old Magnet · Oct 7, 2021

That engine is typical of and early D4400 industrial engine...uses the restart lever and governor vernier control.

iowahill · Oct 7, 2021

hector gemme said:
The aluminum tag should give the serie number and you should have a other tag on rear housing in same side

As Lumberjack Matt mentioned, my motor appears to have been taken from a D4-7J. This is the only tag I've found:

iowahill · Oct 7, 2021

Old Magnet said:
That engine is typical of and early D4400 industrial engine...uses the restart lever and governor vernier control.

I'm not familiar with either the restart lever or governor vernier control operations. Would this be covered in the correct engine manual? Thanks, -Tom

Old Magnet · Oct 7, 2021

That is an industrial engine commonly found on Gen Sets.
The lever apparatus on the side if the injection pump is for restarting the engine after a safety shut down. The vernier controls would have looked like this when complete.
Industrial engines came with direct electric start option normally not found on tractors.
Priming pump and tach drive also would not normally be found on tractors

old-iron-habit · Oct 7, 2021

The governor and controls look exactly like the ones that were on a power unit I sold to a fellow that was restoring some for Caterpillar before they got new management and forgot there heritage. That one was also military and had a fairly large water pump on it with an extended frame.

epirbalex · Oct 8, 2021

The motor number is also casted into the block . Just below the injector pump . Just below the little stick.

My D7 has a model and number in the same place , hopefully the photo's turn up

iowahill · Oct 8, 2021

Old Magnet said:
That is an industrial engine commonly found on Gen Sets.
The lever apparatus on the side if the injection pump is for restarting the engine after a safety shut down. The vernier controls would have looked like this when complete.
Industrial engines came with direct electric start option normally not found on tractors.
Priming pump and tach drive also would not normally be found on tractors
View attachment 246515 View attachment 246516

You've pretty much proved the mystery identification, OM! i greatly appreciate the two attachments and can now go on to fine tuning our old iron. Many thanks, -Tom

Cat D4 7U 1956 motor indemnification?

iowahill

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hector gemme

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