Brand New Cat Undercarriage Problems

[Terexcat]

Hi All
New to this (today) so, Rookie.... (and a very frustrated contractor)

Anyway here's my problem - 2007 Cat D6N LGP, Bought a brand new complete undercarriage from Finning Cat here in Canada, to the tune of $46,000. Got it in the field, and 6 mins after working it, shut it down. The tech said they set Track tension at Cat and tested in yard, but as soon as I got pushing dirt on a slope, she wanted to start jumping on the sprockets.
So i shut down and tightened them a bit, but not too tight. Stopped jumping, but the whole time I ran it, it would work fine going straight forward, but in a slight turn left or right, there was a constant clunk, clunk, clunk - which was-
at about 11 oclock each revolution, the rails would crawl/hang up on the sprocket segments, and then flop back down at about 1 oclock. And both the rails and sprocket segments are scuffing- So obviously wearing out prematurely.
(Keep in mind this is Brand New- everything)
Cat sent someone out, and his comment was, "We want to look after this for you" - That was over a month ago.
His other comment was-
" Hmmm- looks like the rails aren't running true in relation to the sprockets' - as in they were somehow crooked and not engaging the sprockets right. I made the mistake of agreeing with him, but to me it looks like there is too much space between the width of the sprocket and the width of the insides of the rails, creating 'slop'.
So it's not the sprockets (that are immovable) but the rails, that to me, are 'sloppy' when engaging the sprocket segments.

He assured me the part #'s were checked, and the parts are all correct for this machine.

If the bearings on the drive assembly were shot that bad, there would be oil gushing out everywhere, so i don't buy the comment.
Cat wants me to haul it in, on my own dime, ($1000, then haul it back out to my unfinished job again- another $1000 ) saying we need to bring it in to diagnose it.

I haven't ran it all winter, we're shut down- and I don't want to run it till it's rectified - the rails and sprockets will wear out twice as fast as they should

My question is- Is there anyone out there having similar problems with Brand New Undercarriage from Cat?? Is there possibly a hidden recall on some parts??

Please help -
Thanks
Curtis

 

[Nige]

Can you supply some info.....

Machine Serial Number.

Part Numbers of the sprocket segments and the track groups that the dealer installed in your machine. I would imagine they should be on the invoice or in a document attached to it. Maybe even in the quote you approved before they did the work.

Any other part numbers you might have available such as idlers, track rollers, carrier rollers, etc, might be useful.

 

[Bluox]

Hi All
New to this (today) so, Rookie.... (and a very frustrated contractor)

Anyway here's my problem - 2007 Cat D6N LGP, Bought a brand new complete undercarriage from Finning Cat here in Canada, to the tune of $46,000. Got it in the field, and 6 mins after working it, shut it down. The tech said they set Track tension at Cat and tested in yard, but as soon as I got pushing dirt on a slope, she wanted to start jumping on the sprockets.
So i shut down and tightened them a bit, but not too tight. Stopped jumping, but the whole time I ran it, it would work fine going straight forward, but in a slight turn left or right, there was a constant clunk, clunk, clunk - which was-
at about 11 oclock each revolution, the rails would crawl/hang up on the sprocket segments, and then flop back down at about 1 oclock. And both the rails and sprocket segments are scuffing- So obviously wearing out prematurely.
(Keep in mind this is Brand New- everything)
Cat sent someone out, and his comment was, "We want to look after this for you" - That was over a month ago.
His other comment was-
" Hmmm- looks like the rails aren't running true in relation to the sprockets' - as in they were somehow crooked and not engaging the sprockets right. I made the mistake of agreeing with him, but to me it looks like there is too much space between the width of the sprocket and the width of the insides of the rails, creating 'slop'.
So it's not the sprockets (that are immovable) but the rails, that to me, are 'sloppy' when engaging the sprocket segments.

He assured me the part #'s were checked, and the parts are all correct for this machine.

If the bearings on the drive assembly were shot that bad, there would be oil gushing out everywhere, so i don't buy the comment.
Cat wants me to haul it in, on my own dime, ($1000, then haul it back out to my unfinished job again- another $1000 ) saying we need to bring it in to diagnose it.

I haven't ran it all winter, we're shut down- and I don't want to run it till it's rectified - the rails and sprockets will wear out twice as fast as they should

My question is- Is there anyone out there having similar problems with Brand New Undercarriage from Cat?? Is there possibly a hidden recall on some parts??

Please help -
Thanks
Curtis

Why wouldn't you let the dealer warranty it?
Bob

 

[Coaldust]

Terexcat,

Maybe you could take a picture(s) of the invoice and post it. So, we can see what Finning did. Block out your personal info, of course. Maybe some good pictures of the undercarriage, too.

 

[Welder Dave]

$46,000 sounds like they did all the labour too. That's a big chunk of change that they should be responsible to figure out and any shipping if it has to go back to their shop.

 

[BigWrench55]

Did they check for deflection in the pivot bar?

 

[Terexcat]

Why wouldn't you let the dealer warranty it?
Bob

Well i of course want them to- but they don't want to truck it in and back out again on their dime- plus I wanted to see if anyone else had this issue to gather some intel before i went in and met with them

 

[Bluox]

Well i of course want them to- but they don't want to truck it in and back out again on their dime- plus I wanted to see if anyone else had this issue to gather some intel before i went in and met with them

If its a redo that's their fault I would be sure they paid for the trucking.
Bob

 

[big ben]

Undercarriage is basic and not rocket science so it shouldn’t be hard to figure out once you have their attention. Who quoted the job, a PSSR or the shop ? Tell them you want the PSSR to come out and measure/check everything and then a game plan can be figured out.

 

[John C.]

Sounds like an alignment issue of the track frame to the sprockets. There are shims that go on the ends of the pivot shaft that spaces the track frame so that the idlers are dead in line with the sprocket. The other issue has been stated already which is the condition of the equalizer bar. Are all three joints intact and not allowing the track frame to shift side to side and out of alignment with the rest of the machine.

The issue of the freight is pretty normal now days. Dealers don't have the kind of people that can take care of the problem in the field and most have taken the position that warranty work is to be done in the shop so the owner's can't see what kind of stupid mistakes were made. Start climbing the management ladder to find someone who has the ability to say yes. They did the work, the person that came out there acknowledged that, so they should be negotiating some on the freight at a minimum if not paying the whole thing.

 

[Terexcat]

Can you supply some info.....

Machine Serial Number.

Part Numbers of the sprocket segments and the track groups that the dealer installed in your machine. I would imagine they should be on the invoice or in a document attached to it. Maybe even in the quote you approved before they did the work.

Any other part numbers you might have available such as idlers, track rollers, carrier rollers, etc, might be useful.

Hi Nige,
2007 ALY02934 6N LGP

(8) SINGLE FLANGE 310-4912
(8) Double Flange 416-7050
(2) Carrier 229-5446
(10) Sprocket Segment 397-9556
(4) Idlers 396-4170
(2) Track Assemblies 416-7043 ** They sold me what they called GD (General duty, not Heavy Duty) MTO'S- (Made to order) which is rails and pads assembled at Factory- That's the part # **

-Also-

Equalizer Bar Pins and Bushings done- In Spec

Track frame pivot shafts and bores - LT and RT Bearings replaced
Rt side minimal movement, LT side Substantial movement- was told will need machining in the next approx. 1000-1500 hrs

thanks
Curtis

 

[Welder Dave]

A D6N is relatively easy to move and $46K is not pocket change. Did they tell you up front about the machining required or after they had put everything back together? With the money you were already spending why not just do the machining at the same time if it's going to need to be done in short order anyway. Sounds like they dropped the ball and want to sell you more undercarriage in 1000 hours.

 

[lantraxco]

I no longer have all the reference materials, but I do know CAT loved to make all sorts of different bushing sizes, first thing I would check is the OD of the track bushings against the part number of the segments, may be something as simple as a mismatch.

 

[Nige]

Thanks for the Part Number info. Could you please take a look at the LH & RH outer track links and find the Part Number that is cast on them. It should be right underneath the shoe mounting surface.

 

[Terexcat]

Thanks for the Part Number info. Could you please take a look at the LH & RH outer track links and find the Part Number that is cast on them. It should be right underneath the shoe mounting surface.

The machine is two hours away from me but I had a couple pictures on my phone the right side rail number was 417–3595

 

[Nige]

MTO simply means that the Track Gp is not kept in Cat Parts Stock. If a dealer orders a pair of that P/N the factory will manufacture them - keeps inventory down.

This took a bit of tracking down. First up, General Duty track is grease-lubricated, not the oil lubrication used in Heavy Duty (SALT) tracks. It's somewhat like an excavator track in a lot of respects.

The 397-9556 Segments were the clue. They are only used in two Undercarriage Arrgts, 433-0303, & 433-0304. You have the 433-0303 installed in your machine. There is no documentation that I can see anywhere regarding these two Arrgts except the parts listing below. The only difference is the single flange rollers are listed as 417-3770 compared to your 310-4912 and I can find no apparent relationship between the two part Numbers. I wonder if it's sold as a "set" for the HD to General Duty undercarriage conversion.?



So on the face of it everything appears to match up correctly Part Number-wise, or at least very close to it, so back to an alignment issue.

Can you run the tractor on an area of hard level ground (concrete if possible). Run the tractor flat out in 1st gear forward then flick the gear selector into neutral and let the tractor stop on it's own without touching the brakes. Set the park brake but don't drop the blade/ripper. Take a look at whether the track links are running tight against the inside or the outside of the sprocket on both LH & RH sides. Also take a look to see if there is any difference in the wear pattern on the inside and outside surfaces of both sprockets, idlers, & carrier rollers.

 

[John C.]

Grease lubed tracks on a dozer? I hadn't heard that and now I know why it is so much cheaper. Unless they made the bushings over size, those chains will need a pin and bushing turn to maximize the undercarriage life.

They are essentially the same thing that was used fifty years ago. Do they have a master pin as well?

 

[lantraxco]

Grease lubed tracks on a dozer? I hadn't heard that and now I know why it is so much cheaper. Unless they made the bushings over size, those chains will need a pin and bushing turn to maximize the undercarriage life.

They are essentially the same thing that was used fifty years ago. Do they have a master pin as well?

I won't swear to it but I heard they used the same grease seals as excavator tracks?

 

[Nige]

Being able to do a pin/bush turn is one of the selling points.
4 year/3000 hour warranty is another.

https://www.clevelandbrothers.com/content/uploads/2018/08/General-Duty-Brochure-Medium-TTT.pdf
https://www.toromontcat.com/parts/undercarriage/cat-general-duty

Grease lubed tracks on a dozer? I hadn't heard that and now I know why it is so much cheaper. Unless they made the bushings over size, those chains will need a pin and bushing turn to maximize the undercarriage life.

They are essentially the same thing that was used fifty years ago. Do they have a master pin as well?

Croc-type master link John.

 

[Nige]

A question for the OP.
What type of ground conditions are you working in that requires 34"-wide track shoes on a D6N.? A bog..?