Looking at old backhoes

[Jshopes81]

Id like to say thanks in advance for any advice given. So, as the title states, im looking at old backhoes for some work to do on my property. Ive considered the rent vs purchase thing and im trying to just buy something old, cheap, and then sell when im done and get my money back out of it. Ive got an external french drain around the house, my leech field, some stumps, and a driveway/parking area to do. Since ive been looking, ive come across some case 580ck, ford 4500s, and a few 3/400 deeres. The most common seem to be the old 4500/case machines in southwestern pa. The deeres are either out of my budget or beat to death. Out of the 3, which should i be looking at the hardest? The fords seem like a pretty good bang for the buck machine and all 3 seem to have pretty good parts availability. Any reason to pick a case over a ford? Or a deere over a case? Ive had good luck with my fords and deere, but theyre not in this realm.

Ive got a crane license and cdl so ive done some work with equipment, but this is a new experience for me.

 

[JL Sargent]

So many questions. Are you a mechanic? Owning an old backhoe is a very iffy proposition. Lots of hidden problems can lurk in the darkness. That fact coupled with the problem of dishonest sellers equals "caveat emptor" big time. Do you have a way to move a backhoe? I've noticed that a lot of folks don't realize how heavy these machines can get. Do you have any heavy equipment dealers near you? Getting parts can be real tough on older machines. My closest dealer is JD at 30 miles away. I own a JD. What is your budget? A 70s model 4500 backhoe is nowhere near a 2000ish full size backhoe in capability. For me, I would rent new instead of buying a 40 year old backhoe.

 

[Delmer]

For that work, I'd suggest renting a mini excavator one week, then do the hand work, then rent a skid steer to clean up.

If you ENJOY being a mechanic, or want to learn, then I would say, no, there is no reason to go with a Case or beat up JD over a Ford. I would look at a bunch of them, operate a few, and lean heavily toward the one that has been worked the hardest in the last year. If you get one that's been sitting, you'll replace half the hoses, one at a time losing gallons of oil each time, or you'll replace all the hoses at once. Half the cylinders will start leaking the same way. You will NOT get your money back out of it if you have to do much work at all.

 

[edgephoto]

I am far from an expert but I bought my first machine in 2019. I have yet to actually use it for anything. I bought it because I have a 15 acre parcel that I will be building a house, gun range, barn and just clearing some of the heavy woods.

I bought a 30 year old Cat 426. She ran, moved and more or less everything worked. I knew what I was buying needed some work. If you are not mechanically inclined or not willing to do work on a machine than do not buy an old one.

You will end up replacing all the hoses, repacking the cylinders and some other maintenance no matter what. You will either do it up front as a project or one thing at a time as it breaks.

My machine was less than half the price of all the comparable machines I looked at. I had it moved to my brother's auto shop. I am working on it here and there when I get time. I have replaced all the hoses, repacked all but two cylinders. I had two cylinders rebuilt. I had two cracks in the boom repaired. I rebuilt the battery box and replaced the corroded ground cable. I am currently working on the cab. Need to replace the floor panels and fix some rust on the cabin. I am also rebuilding the seat. After that I need to verify all the electrical items work and replace some of the exterior lights. Then I need to pull the rear axle and disassemble to replace a leaking axle seal. Lastly I will replace the tires and glass. I am doing all this so I end up with a machine that I can use and have for a number of years. If my plan works I will have little if any issues to fix in the field.

EDIT: Make sure your parts supplier is not far and is a good place to deal with. I got lucky when I bought my cat. Cat makes almost everything for their older stuff and my local dealer is awesome.

 

[Jshopes81]

I can turn a wrench or two. Ive always done all of my own mechanical work on vehicles to an extent. Swapped transmissions, rearends, brakes, hoses, and we do alot of our own wrenching on stuff at work. I understand about buyer beware and so far ive looked at a few machines. I love how "ran when parked" turns into "was parked there 25 years ago" or "runs good" equates to "its own smoke screen from blowby" when youre looking in person. As far as dealers go, ive got deere construction, case ih, cat, agco, pretty much all the majors within a 45 minute drive. The only parts i can see needing available locally are consumables like packing or seals for rams. Anything else i can have shipped in a few days.
As far as capability, i could realistically do everything i need done with a shovel, and more free time than i have, but my ditch digging days are gone, at almost 40 stuff tends to stay sore a little longer than when i was 20. Anythings better than a shovel.
Renting is absolutely out. My work schedule makes things like that really hard to do. I need something thats there all the time so i can do stuff as i get time.

 

[chroniekon]

I purchased a 1974 JD310 9 years ago with the same thought as you. It's been so handy, I haven't even considered selling it. Beyond the normal stuff like oil changes and filters, battery, starter rebuild and alternator replacement, I had to rebuild the hydraulic pump and replace a couple of hoses, but parts were pretty easy to find and I got a lot of help here on the forum with the pump rebuild. All in all I've ended up with a decent machine that I use on a regular basis.

 

[Welder Dave]

Almost 40 and complaining you're a little sore, wait a few years and you'll be really sore and wish you under 40 again. What is your budget for an older used machine? JD's will most likely have closed center hydraulics that can be more complicated/expensive to repair. Best to pay an experienced mechanic to look at any potential machines.

 

[Jshopes81]

Trying to spend around 5 so i dont have to finance. Im not complaining about it, but why do things the hard way if you dont have to? That and alot of my miles are hard oilfield miles.

 

[Welder Dave]

Kind of what I was thinking. Buying a 5K backhoe could be the hard way of doing it. The lower the price the more thorough of inspection needs to be done if you want something that works. Take an experienced mechanic and also an experienced operator to run the machine for an hour or so. Might cost you a few hundred bucks but to not might cost you thousands and be an expensive lesson. Also budget for repairs because any machine will need them.

 

[Jshopes81]

I get what your saying. Ive read several threads on here (the reason im here, all the good info so far) about how to inspect a piece of equipment. Its definately come in handy as a deere 410 had the hydraulics crap out after i got them warm. I had a ford 4500 that spewed coolant when the throttle was run up under load, and alot of other great info. Ive also learned on here simple things like a bad starter can be used to mask other problems that can potentially be very expensive. I think even an old 9n with a loader backhoe would even work if it had been properly cared for for my needs but i dont even want to get into something that old. I was just curious why i might pick a case over an old ford and so on. Ive heard good about both. Its not like ill be measuring productivityin much of a way so quicker cycle times is irrelevant for my application or things like that. Thanks again.

 

[Tinkerer]

Welcome to HEF, Jshopes81 !
If you need help no matter what you buy, you will get a million dollars worth of expert help almost 24/7 here on HEF.
That sir is no BS either !

 

[Welder Dave]

Post what you're going to look at on here first. Best to steer clear of older JCB's and maybe newer ones too. Parts and service are very suspect reading threads about them.

 

[Jshopes81]

Ya, ive looked at 2 jcbs and they were both pretty rough. I passed on those pretty quick. Right now ive got a dealer with a ford 4500 nearby and a private seller with a case 580b. The ford has a fuel leak which im calling to inquire about now (location of the leak) and the 580 has a leak at one of the swing cylinders. I expect some leaks on machines this old being sold and i figure i can fix for under 100$ since the chrome on both of the rods look good. Theyre both the same price. The ford has 4200hrs according to the dealer.

https://www.bakerandsons.com/F - LC Equip/Used FLC Equip/Backhoes/W17187-4.html

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/205115111203741/?ref=facebook_story_share

Those are links to two current prospects.

 

[Welder Dave]

$100 might get you a seal kit. If you've never done cylinder seals might be best to have it done at a hyd. shop. NEVER trust an hour meter. I'm no expert but it looks like 580B's ended in 1976. What else is embellished? What year is the Ford? The grill is missing and a side of the hood is in the bucket. Why is it off? I can't see but some older Fords had a chain set up for the swing that can be problematic so may want to check that out.

 

[DMiller]

No machine over 20 years old will be functionally problem free, what I found thru ownership of old machines is an hours use is a hours maintenance after. Hoses fail, small parts break, hell even large parts break and generally without fore warning. $5k will cost you ten within a few years of service in just day to day repairs, tires, blown cylinders or failed power train. A Stanadyne injector pump rebuild is from $600-900 and YOU do the R&R. It will be Buyer Beware if are not accustomed nor have the tooling to attack one of these head on.

 

[Jshopes81]

I didnt even think about the hood being in the bucket or the grill. It does have the chain swing. My grill for my deere 455 has been laying in my wifes flower bed since summer time. I tossed it over to clean the battery terminals and wanted to get back to mowing and thats where its sitting. The fuel leak is apparently at the injector pump but isnt even a drip, keeps the area moist looking. Any idea how difficult it would be to put seals on that injector pump? I do cylinders every day, several times a day, but theyre gas over hydraulic and see about 20,000psi. Repacking and sealing a ram isnt at all intimidating.

 

[NH575E]

Almost 40 and complaining you're a little sore, wait a few years and you'll be really sore and wish you under 40 again. What is your budget for an older used machine? JD's will most likely have closed center hydraulics that can be more complicated/expensive to repair. Best to pay an experienced mechanic to look at any potential machines.

I don't know Dave. 40 hit me like a truck! Now that I have better sense and have quit all my bad habits I'm in better shape at 69.

 

[edgephoto]

I would rather have that Case. I do not think I would want a machine without at least a ROPS. You live where it gets cold, are you sure you want a machine without a little protection from the elements and even a heater?

Seller could be lying about the age or he has no idea. A few questions should answer that. If it works as he claims then have him demonstrate it. Make him dig a hole. Make sure that when he starts the machine it is from a cold start. If you ahow up and it is already warm there is a good chance seller is hiding something.

 

[DMiller]

Case is almost but not quite a orphan as is the Ford
If coming in cold to old machines at least buy one can still buy parts for

 

[oarwhat]

I like the old fords but that one looks like you have to climb up to the rear seat for digging. That gets old in a hurry. We had a very old JD like that. We had a 550 with chain drive. Never had a problem but if they break lookout.