Ever blade backwards?

[Welder Dave]

You still haven't answered my question. What have you ever done with a grader?

Are you a certified grader operator now? Did you write the manual for Cat? I answered your question, more importantly I answered the OP's question and provided credible back up to support it as did others. The OP and other posters accepted it. You hijacked the thread to offer your opinion. At this point that's all it is, your opinion. You're disputing what it says in several operators manuals. Now answer my question. Show me in a manual where is specifically says not to grade in reverse? No more of this back and forth, show me a page from a manual to support your opinion.

 

[John C.]

So you have never operated, maintained or repaired a grader of any kind. My parent’s generation called that talking through a paper bung hole. You keep trying make yourself look smart by standing on some one else’s shoulders.

 

[GaryHoff]

Interesting thread to say the least. Grading backwards isn't something I have personally ever seen or would have considered. I can see that it could have its places, and may have been more common before all wheel drive graders existed. However, I don't believe most operators possess the skill to do this, and it is not common practice.

With that being said, lets not be taking any personal attacks on anyone.

Quote from 160M series 2 operators manual:

Intended Use
This Motor Grader is an earthmoving machine as described in "ISO 6165:2001" and is classified as a grader. This is a self-propelled wheeled machine which has an adjustable blade positioned between the front and rear axles. This Motor Grader can also be fitted with a front mounted blade or a rear mounted ripper. This Motor Grader is intended for use in grading, sloping, ditching, and scarifying of materials through a forward motion.



I have checked my Deere, Case, Cat and Volvo operator manuals, and none of them make any specific mention of grading in reverse (that I could find). Although, Case did make some mention of back dragging and operating angles.



Case 885 Tier 3 Manual

Using the moldboard to back drag material should
be avoided if possible. This can cause heavy wear
on the moldboard guides and possibly damage
the side shift cylinder piston rod. If back dragging
cannot be avoided, make certain material does
not contact the positioning piston rod.

Although the grader permits the circle turn 360°,
most of the grading operations are done with the
blade between 15° and 45° in relation to the work
direction.



TLDR Reverse grading is permitted, but not the main intended operating method.

 

[Welder Dave]

So you have never operated, maintained or repaired a grader of any kind. My parent’s generation called that talking through a paper bung hole. You keep trying make yourself look smart by standing on some one else’s shoulders.

I figured the name calling was coming. It's a pattern with you. You obviously can't provide anything other than your own opinion so feel the need to resort to name calling and insults. It certainly doesn't make you look smart! I think when you have such a closed mind it makes you lose credibility but people can decide for themselves.

Several experienced operators and operating manuals going back to 1938 have confirmed the moldboard can be turned around and used in reverse. You dispute this despite seeing pictures and detailed explanations of it being done. It's right there in front of your eyes but you're more interested in arguing and voicing your personal opinion with nothing to back it up. Sorry but if Randy Krieg who wrote the operating manual for Cat, helped develop the H series, demoed the first 24H and has decades of experience including patents on graders shows definitive proof it can be done that's good enough for me and several others on this forum.

 

[Welder Dave]

Interesting thread to say the least. Grading backwards isn't something I have personally ever seen or would have considered. I can see that it could have its places, and may have been more common before all wheel drive graders existed. However, I don't believe most operators possess the skill to do this, and it is not common practice.

With that being said, lets not be taking any personal attacks on anyone.

Quote from 160M series 2 operators manual:

Intended Use
This Motor Grader is an earthmoving machine as described in "ISO 6165:2001" and is classified as a grader. This is a self-propelled wheeled machine which has an adjustable blade positioned between the front and rear axles. This Motor Grader can also be fitted with a front mounted blade or a rear mounted ripper. This Motor Grader is intended for use in grading, sloping, ditching, and scarifying of materials through a forward motion.



I have checked my Deere, Case, Cat and Volvo operator manuals, and none of them make any specific mention of grading in reverse (that I could find). Although, Case did make some mention of back dragging and operating angles.



Case 885 Tier 3 Manual

Using the moldboard to back drag material should
be avoided if possible. This can cause heavy wear
on the moldboard guides and possibly damage
the side shift cylinder piston rod. If back dragging
cannot be avoided, make certain material does
not contact the positioning piston rod.

Although the grader permits the circle turn 360°,
most of the grading operations are done with the
blade between 15° and 45° in relation to the work
direction.



TLDR Reverse grading is permitted, but not the main intended operating method.

M series are a little different beast. Cutting Edge has already replied that his Volvo manual states it can be done. Now in these manuals you have does it specifically state that the blade should not be turned around and used to grade in reverse? The Case manual almost alludes to it being able to be done. Copying your post another line comes up. Not sure why it doesn't show on your original post but is pretty conclusive. THANKS!

TLDR Reverse grading is permitted, but not the main intended operating method.[/QUOTE]

 

[cuttin edge]

M series are a little different beast. Cutting Edge has already replied that his Volvo manual states it can be done. Now in these manuals you have does it specifically state that the blade should not be turned around and used to grade in reverse? The Case manual almost alludes to it being able to be done. Copying your post another line comes up. Not sure why it doesn't show on your original post but is pretty conclusive. THANKS!

TLDR Reverse grading is permitted, but not the main intended operating method.

[/QUOTE]
My Volvo is a 2011. Manual is almost identical to the champion in the operating section. Says it is possible but not recomended. Like I said, I back drag small amounts of lose material sometimes when there isn't room to turn, just to feather out. Can't see myself taking the time to swing the MB around for that. I do peatmoss fields every year. The haul roads are only 16 feet wide and some are almost a mile long with no place to turn. It would be more convenient to grade in, rotate MB and grade out, but it is course shale, and even though it says it's possible, I think it would put a lot of pressure on the timing and rotational gears. If it were gravel, I would try it in a heart beat. But for now, grade in, back out, back in, grade out.

 

[Welder Dave]

It has been done successfully by experienced operators. Even one of the manuals states it is an advanced technique for experienced operators. If you get a chance you should try it and post the results.

 

[20/80]

I have and sometimes back drag when doing some spot grading but no amount of distance, I have also swung the blade around and pulled material out of the ditch in reverse, but working on a shoulder you may find yourself being pulled into the ditch, I find you lose traction easier pulling material in reverse, but be careful not to shear your gearbox pinion off swinging your mouldboard around, to much back dragging will wear out the back of your holders if you are using stinger blades, so proper pitch on the blade is important, I believe back dragging and reverse grading may not be recommended but is important and useful if done cautiously.

 

[ovrszd]

I agree with 20/80.

I'm a bit baffled that this has become an argument. It's certainly possible. And in specific situations might be beneficial. As graders have evolved so has their versatility. All operators should be open to that. If not the operator is limiting their own potential.

I have received several comments over the years from observers saying they didn't know a grader could do that. Makes me proud to be an operator when I hear that.

The cutting edge is a simple extension of my hand.

 

[ih100]

There’s things every machine can do that aren’t “normal” or accepted operation, but it isn’t a criminal offence to keep them in your arsenal for that once-in-a-while situation where you need to think out of the box. It gets a bit ridiculous when people get personal over a difference of opinion. I have a total of possibly forty hours on graders, but I’ve lost count how many on dozers and it still makes me laugh that I’m going to hell or Portland for dragging the blade backwards for ten feet.

 

[municipal Foreman 315]

There is times, and circumstances that learning how to back drag material is important. In a municipal setting back dragging away from train tracks, or for feathering out intersections comes in handy. If you are going to back blade, I'd recommend tilting the moldboard completely forward to use the cutting edge, more so then wearing on your bolts and nuts which hold the cutting edge. The other thing to consider in a public setting is safety. Limit the amount of backing up, as it requires a lot of attention.
My opinion is use it when you need it, but avoid unnecessary use.

 

[cuttin edge]

There is times, and circumstances that learning how to back drag material is important. In a municipal setting back dragging away from train tracks, or for feathering out intersections comes in handy. If you are going to back blade, I'd recommend tilting the moldboard completely forward to use the cutting edge, more so then wearing on your bolts and nuts which hold the cutting edge. The other thing to consider in a public setting is safety. Limit the amount of backing up, as it requires a lot of attention.
My opinion is use it when you need it, but avoid unnecessary use.

Welcome. The discussion although 3 years old was about rotating your circle so the MB faces you, and grading backwards. If I remember, it caused quite an argument at the time.

 

[Welder Dave]

A ridiculous argument too, questioning a master operator who worked for Cat and helped develop their graders.

 

[skyking1]

I have very little blade time but I did do one thing backwards. It was on a freeway job in Olympia for PKS. I cut a little groove for a fabric cover over a slope, and then very slowly back bladed the gravel over it after they tucked the fabric in the groove. Then they made strings of sandbags to go down the slope.
I suppose that forward would work just fine but this was the suggestion and I went with it. Then I wheel rolled that down tight.

 

[Georgia Iron]

I see this is an older thread. Here is my take on this. I can and do use my grader in reverse. I do fine finish grading for concrete. I am paid to keep grade to within 1/2" or a 1/4" each way.

My machine will not turn the blade 180 degrees. The biggest issue I have is getting too much material into the back of the mold board. I don't want gravel or dirt in the hydraulic lines, fittings, or sliding parts. I only back drag lighter winrows. I can finish a job faster by knowing how to grade in reverse.
I can fill holes or touch up areas that need addressed without turning the machine around. I do it all the time..

 

[Welder Dave]

This thread was more about turning the moldboard around and then going in reverse. I think everyone has back bladed some with a grader even if just to smooth off the last little bit that was pushed up.

 

[OzDozer]

This an interesting thread, despite the head-butting between John C and Welder Dave. I've owned and operated a few graders - from old knuckle-buster Cat 12's, to hydraulic-over-mechanical 14E, to a full hydraulic 140G. And I've employed more than a few grader operators, some good, some not so good.

Plus, I've worked along grader operators who were highly skilled, and who could grade to a match-head thickness with knuckle-busters. Can't say I was ever that good, but I've built a lot of roads and banks that are still in use!
But in 30 years of being an earthmoving contractor directly, plus another 28 years of being associated with earthmoving equipment and construction and mining projects, I cannot ever recall - not even once - seeing any grader operator ever reverse the moldboard, and grade backwards with it in that position.

I'd imagine it would take a very versatile operator to operate effectively in reverse, and it would need an ability to develop a "reverse-skill set" to function as effectively in reverse, as going forward.

Having said that, I just happen to have a copy of the "Caterpillar No. 12 Auto Patrol" sales release brochure from July 1938.
In that brochure, Cat clearly state and illustrate the ability of the No. 12 Auto Patrol to blade in reverse.

However ... note that the No. 12 from 1938 had a moldboard length and wheel/tyre sizes that allowed for easy 360° rotation of the moldboard, without any fear of hitting a tyre or a step or any other part of the grader structure.
This is not the case with many later graders, and one has to exercise extreme care not to clip a tyre or step when rotating the moldboard.

I might add, I have never seen a grader operator working in a suit and tie, and wearing a smart fedora hat, either!
But I did have one dozer operator - who was a bit of a "character" - purchase a bowler hat and matching double-breasted English suit, from a secondhand clothes shop, and drive my D6C, wearing that outfit!
I must say it added some class to my operation, and brought a few laughs from clients!

One could also opine that reversing the moldboard was a more attractive option than trying to do a 180° turn, in an early Cat grader that didn't have power steering!
My first 12E didn't have any power steering, and I can still l remember the tricks involved in minimising steering effort, when it was time to turn around 180°!
And the never-forgotten lesson to keep your thumbs aligned with the steering wheel rim, and out of the spokes!

 

[ih100]

X2 on the thumbs, Oz, I learned that day one on a Farmall M in the 1970’s.

one outfit I worked for in the 90’s had a grader operator on a 12H who in the morning couldn’t hit a cow’s arse with a shovel, let alone hit grade. After 11 when the pub over the way had opened, two quick pints and he could hit grade all day.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I might add, I have never seen a grader operator working in a suit and tie, and wearing a smart fedora hat, either!
But I did have one dozer operator - who was a bit of a "character" - purchase a bowler hat and matching double-breasted English suit

 

[CM1995]

A ridiculous argument too, questioning a master operator who worked for Cat and helped develop their graders.

You need to let it go WD..