• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Pre-emissions machine, or new? Brands to consider?

700R

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
6
Location
Virginia
:cool: Hey guys (and maybe some gals on here), I'm in the market for a skid steer. I'm tired of renting, and have a bit of work to do around the house. 5 acres in the woods, so some dirt work, rocks, tree work, stumps, landscaping, gravel driveway, and a hobby of working on trucks, so moving junkers around and their heavy parts (axles, engines, beds, etc...).
There's a possibility of a few side-jobs through my mother's landscaping business, but I'm not factoring that into anything.

I've been looking on and off for several months now, and I was dead-set on a pre-emissions unit with as little electronics in it as I can get...but still in the 2005-2010 range (or however new I can get that meets those wants of mine). $20,000-ish budget.
Requirements are:
Wheeled machine. No tracks
Foot controls.
2000-2500# capacity.
Machine weight of 8,000 or less with one attachment. Grapple bucket is probably the heaviest attachment I have in mind. (I have a 10k trailer and don't want to upgrade).

Well then I start to see dealer ads for brand new (probably left over 2019 models) New Holland L220 machines for $32k.

First off, how are the newer NH machines from a reliability standpoint? I've read they had a lot of issues with the 200-series machines when they came out in 2012-2014...but how are they now? I'd spring for the little extra for a brand new machine, as long as I don't have to haul it to the dealer for problems every few months. Am I correct in thinking that the L220 doesn't use DEF or need to regen? That is a no-go for me, no matter what...new or used.


Secondly, back to the older machines. Any good reliable brands come to mind over another? Is any one machine easier to maintain and work on than another? Access to engine, pump, hydraulic lines, drive motors, etc.?
I'm leaning towards Bobcat. I've heard a lot of good from them, and most of the rental companies around here use them. It's also what I have the most experience with.
Deere would be a close second. Cat/Case machines are almost all pilot controls, so they may be out
Dealer support isn't much of a factor, as this would be something I would be maintaining, and doing just about every repair to myself. I know everyone says buy based on the best dealer, but I hate paying outrageous hourly service rates for someone else to change a part....reason why I've never taken a vehicle to a shop in my life either. The dealer would only be used as a source of parts if I couldn't get them online, or as a last resort if I couldn't diagnose an issue. I hope to never set foot in one...LOL :D
 

bad Tom

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 7, 2020
Messages
121
Location
Effingham Kansas
I have two Case machines, 420 and 440CT. Both are early, 2005 and 2006 and have standard controls, no pilot control, no computers. Easy to work on compared to other machines. The older models are "XT's" Good machines from what I have heard.
 

phil314

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Messages
356
Location
Otsego, Mn
Occupation
Instigator of Choas
I'm leaning towards Bobcat. I've heard a lot of good from them, and most of the rental companies around here use them. It's also what I have the most experience with.
Deere would be a close second. Cat/Case machines are almost all pilot controls, so they may be out
Dealer support isn't much of a factor, as this would be something I would be maintaining, and doing just about every repair to myself. I know everyone says buy based on the best dealer, but I hate paying outrageous hourly service rates for someone else to change a part....reason why I've never taken a vehicle to a shop in my life either. The dealer would only be used as a source of parts if I couldn't get them online, or as a last resort if I couldn't diagnose an issue. I hope to never set foot in one...LOL :D

I was in the same position when I was looking at new machines. I do my own work/maintenance. For that reason, bobcat stood out over the other. They seem to be far more popular, more people using them and more knowledge about them. That means if I ever have a question, much better chance I can get an right answer and the problems & fixes are more well know.

Given that and your other requirements, it sounds like an S185 or S250 is what you need. S250 will be over your weight but has the capacity. S185 will be under the weight but also under the capacity. Both are common in foot controls and at your price point. Should be easy enough to rent one for a day and try it.
 

700R

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
6
Location
Virginia
I have two Case machines, 420 and 440CT. Both are early, 2005 and 2006 and have standard controls, no pilot control, no computers. Easy to work on compared to other machines. The older models are "XT's" Good machines from what I have heard.

The Case 430/440/450 and XT's (70/75/80) do have my interest. 9 out of every 10 machines I look at have the pilot controls though. The ones that do have foot controls are in rough shape, or 5,000+hrs.
 

700R

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
6
Location
Virginia
I was in the same position when I was looking at new machines. I do my own work/maintenance. For that reason, bobcat stood out over the other. They seem to be far more popular, more people using them and more knowledge about them. That means if I ever have a question, much better chance I can get an right answer and the problems & fixes are more well know.

Given that and your other requirements, it sounds like an S185 or S250 is what you need. S250 will be over your weight but has the capacity. S185 will be under the weight but also under the capacity. Both are common in foot controls and at your price point. Should be easy enough to rent one for a day and try it.

I think I can squeeze the S250 on my trailer, at 7,825lbs. Maybe load it a little tongue heavy :eek:
There is the S205 and S220 out there too.
The S185 would probably be plenty for me if I am honest with myself...all the machines I've rented have been in the 1750-1900# range. But I have the mindset that it's better to work a bigger machine easier than to run a smaller machine at capacity or more. Plus, room to grow with the bigger one!
Thanks!
 

phil314

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Messages
356
Location
Otsego, Mn
Occupation
Instigator of Choas
I think I can squeeze the S250 on my trailer, at 7,825lbs. Maybe load it a little tongue heavy :eek:
There is the S205 and S220 out there too.
The S185 would probably be plenty for me if I am honest with myself...all the machines I've rented have been in the 1750-1900# range. But I have the mindset that it's better to work a bigger machine easier than to run a smaller machine at capacity or more. Plus, room to grow with the bigger one!
Thanks!

Yeah, I mention the S185 and S250 because they are the very common models with good reputations. The S205 & S220 are much less common. Which gets back to getting answer to question. I've deal with some 'oddballs' in the past and it can be very frustrating.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,257
Location
Canada
I think the notion that a bigger machine won't need to be worked as hard is flawed. No matter what size of skid steer you have you're going to work it to capacity and even exceed it occasionally. This is fine as long as it's not constantly overloaded and you're not abusing it.
 

Muffler Bearing

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
512
Location
Colorful Colorado
Occupation
Truck Mechanic
On the topic of new machines...personally as a tech I'm a decade into fixing DEF issues, and 13 years into fixing DPF. I have more experience on common rail engines than mechanical fuel systems. So none of this stuff is the futuristic space-ship technology we once feared. I've seen the types of failures that cause these machines to come into the shop. Cracks at welds, chafed wires, failed injectors,and pumps The list isn't that different from pre- emission machines, plus you'll get about five years of emission warranty and hopefully machine warranty. Good luck!
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,318
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
Are you really sure you want foot controls? Spend a couple days on a joystick machine and I think you would forget about foot controls. I know it is hard to move away from what your familiar with, but that is a habit that you would be glad to break from once its done. Just something to consider. A lot more purchase options that way and resale on the machine is much easier as well.
 

700R

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
6
Location
Virginia
Might not have warranty on a used machine.

I fully understand that, and don't expect a 5-10-15 year old machine to have one.

I think the notion that a bigger machine won't need to be worked as hard is flawed. No matter what size of skid steer you have you're going to work it to capacity and even exceed it occasionally. This is fine as long as it's not constantly overloaded and you're not abusing it.

It's like buying a Ford Ranger or a F350...one of them is going to hold up to the work better than another. The work I have isn't going to change (within reason), so that's a constant I can plan for when looking at certain sized machines. My friend has had a Thomas T133 machine since the '90's, and I've watched it struggle on a many things in the past.
 

700R

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
6
Location
Virginia
On the topic of new machines...personally as a tech I'm a decade into fixing DEF issues, and 13 years into fixing DPF. I have more experience on common rail engines than mechanical fuel systems. So none of this stuff is the futuristic space-ship technology we once feared. I've seen the types of failures that cause these machines to come into the shop. Cracks at welds, chafed wires, failed injectors,and pumps The list isn't that different from pre- emission machines, plus you'll get about five years of emission warranty and hopefully machine warranty. Good luck!


Thanks. Yes, I realize emissions has been out for a while now, but when a computer acts up and needs special software to fix...that's something I can't do at home. I can change parts, weld, wire, etc...

After dwelling on it more, I don't think I can justify a new machine anyways...
 

700R

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Messages
6
Location
Virginia
Are you really sure you want foot controls? Spend a couple days on a joystick machine and I think you would forget about foot controls. I know it is hard to move away from what your familiar with, but that is a habit that you would be glad to break from once its done. Just something to consider. A lot more purchase options that way and resale on the machine is much easier as well.

I'm 6'5" tall, so my legs do get cramped working those pedals. The next time I planned on renting a machine, I was going to ask for a joystick machine just to try out. I just don't trust them...LoL
 

Txhayseed

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2019
Messages
610
Location
Texas
I have two S175s with the standard hand and foot controls. Both with Kubotas and they are probably two of the best machines I’ve had. I do everything around here with them and do just about anything you need a skid steer to do with them. They are both 2013 year models. I bought one with 2800 hrs on it for 11k and one with “ blown” motor from the same company for 5k. Had the motor Bored over and new over sized pistons put in and overhauled for about 1200 bucks. Great thing is since it’s a kubota I got every single part with out stepping foot in a dealership and paying dealer prices. That’s another great thing about bobcats i have only ever had to order a few parts from the dealer everything else is easy to find by putting a part number into google or amazon. Filters cross into every brand out there. Almost all
Parts stores keep them. parts manuals are free and on bobcats web site. Service manuals are online for free if you look and they are so common most mechanics can work on them with out issues.
 

Shimmy1

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
4,258
Location
North Dakota
if you go to pilot controls make sure its not electric over hydraulic pilots. They have NO feel!

Have spent almost 2000 hours on a couple of different T770 Bobcats. Have more *feel* than any other brand except Kubota, of which I consider it equal. Cat has the worst feeling controls, in my opinion, followed by Deere, then Case.
 

tech1234

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
24
Location
Keene NH
Have spent almost 2000 hours on a couple of different T770 Bobcats. Have more *feel* than any other brand except Kubota, of which I consider it equal. Cat has the worst feeling controls, in my opinion, followed by Deere, then Case.

I moved from hand/foot controls and think the Kubota pilots are the best
 

FlatTire

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
14
Location
Illinois
I have two S175s with the standard hand and foot controls. Both with Kubotas and they are probably two of the best machines I’ve had. I do everything around here with them and do just about anything you need a skid steer to do with them. They are both 2013 year models. I bought one with 2800 hrs on it for 11k and one with “ blown” motor from the same company for 5k. Had the motor Bored over and new over sized pistons put in and overhauled for about 1200 bucks. Great thing is since it’s a kubota I got every single part with out stepping foot in a dealership and paying dealer prices. That’s another great thing about bobcats i have only ever had to order a few parts from the dealer everything else is easy to find by putting a part number into google or amazon. Filters cross into every brand out there. Almost all
Parts stores keep them. parts manuals are free and on bobcats web site. Service manuals are online for free if you look and they are so common most mechanics can work on them with out issues.


Excellent to hear. I currently own an old 753 with infinite hours, and I’m seriously considering moving into an S175. Nice to read people having good experiences!
 

KSSS

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2005
Messages
4,318
Location
Idaho
Occupation
excavation
I would say this about the CASE EH system. They have steadily improved since going EH like most have I am sure. The B series CASE machines are excellent. They improved the software and vastly improved the ability to select your preference. You can select from CASE preselected options or build your own response and you can do it easily with the new console. I have run this series against last years BC machines. What I do like about BC is the stick throws are shorter, but the feel (which of course is subjective) is not better in my opinion. The benefit of the longer throw is it is easier to be precise I think, but I still prefer the shorter throw myself.
 
Top