Michigan 75A no forward travel

[Burnt.Fingers]

I'm sure there's much worse than this one to yank out,
pretty sure with the hoist setup I've got, stuffing it back up in there will be the same juggling around i had to do to drop it, only in reverse.
The weight is balanced real good on the hook.
Planning to scrape, clean and degrease the housing thoroughly before I open it up over the weekend.

 

[kshansen]

No Thanks!! Used to have to deal with Euc Dump trucks, no transmission jacks and dragging the old gearboxes out on plywood using come alongs to get them down and back up.

Gee the R30, R35's we had were easy to drop the transmissions on. Well as long as the truck was running enough to raise and pin the box! They were all remote mount transmissions. Basically pull input and output drive shafts, disconnect the retarder oil lines, the shift and parking brake linkages, link to retarder handle, front and rear mounts and attach lifting bracket to top and lower down with overhead crane. Dang it almost ripped the converter temp gauge capillary line off! Remove that then your good to go!

 

[DMiller]

Eucs depended on size, some were married to engine others were remote, most were buried in something else, and you had bed supports!! What were those back in the day!! We worked bed down most times as the idiots would blow a trans or clutch and then no hydraulics to raise machine anyway.

 

[kshansen]

Eucs depended on size, some were married to engine others were remote, most were buried in something else, and you had bed supports!! What were those back in the day!! We worked bed down most times as the idiots would blow a trans or clutch and then no hydraulics to raise machine anyway.

Yea direct mount like the M-30 Mack's were "fun" did them box down with chain jacks in and out.
But we are getting off topic for Burnt.finger job:

Just noticed this loader has a Waukesha gas engine, do you know the model number? I have a couple old Waukesha manuals. One is probably way too big F-817-G! Yea that's the displacement! The other is for the 140-145 Series those run any where from 525 cubic inches up to a 817 version but even those might be a bit big for this loader, not sure!

One other thought do you know of a place to get parts for this machine? Seems I heard some good things about this outfit:
https://www.minnpar.com

They have many manuals to read on line as far as parts, could not see one I was sure was for your 75A but might be worth a look.
https://www.minnpar.com/manuals.aspx

Also have an old Motors Manual, remember those, it has a few spec's on a bunch of Waukesha engines not a lot of details but the basics like valve settings and timing.

 

[Burnt.Fingers]

The black sheep of the family!!

 

[kshansen]

The black sheep of the family!!

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Is it just the picture or is that upper clutch pack look very dark. If so I would be interested in seeing the parts inside that drum compared to the same ones in the lower drum.

 

[Burnt.Fingers]

Haha..oh its black alright!!
like the color of blueing on a gun barrel.

 

[Burnt.Fingers]

There are 10 clutch disc release springs in each pack.
This matches the source of the metal found in the pickup screen.
The fwd drum black from heat has a few broken springs.
Most of the bronze clutches in the fwd pack are torn up with pieces of release spring embedded in them.
Inner and outer piston seals are chewed up in pieces.

 

[kshansen]

Well guess that answers the question why it don't move forward!

Have you checked any place on parts availability?

With it sitting on the floor I'm hoping you are going to pull all the other clutches before committing to order parts. Would really suck to order all the parts for that clutch and then find out one of the others was close behind it ready to fail next month.

I would also be putting all the broken bits of spring together to get an idea if you found all the bits.

 

[Burnt.Fingers]

Right on Ken,
I'll be pulling the other 3 packs apart to inspect the discs, drums and release springs and will need to replace those seals anyhow.
The last group of photos you'll see the 10 release springs with the fragments out of the fwd drum, the remaining few tiny pieces are embedded in a few bronze discs, it's all there and accounted for, but I'm scouring everything everywhere, to be sure nothing's left behind that could tear a seal or wedge a valve once it's back together.
All 4 packs are identical, I have a couple different original 75A parts books, those numbers for the individual clutch parts remained the same throughout and I was able to match up casting numbers and other stamped parts are matching my book so I'm confident I've got the right part numbers to order.
Will likely call Minnpar this week and see what's available as well as work the phone to see what's out there.
Although everything I need is right in your backyard over at Smith's and I'll likely head over there first and see if they're in a selling mood.
Pull up Google satellite view and look in the pits off of stump rd & count loaders, I haven't done it recently but last time I did was over 30 not counting what's piled up inside buildings.

 

[DMiller]

IF Minnpar cannot do any good is another alternate
Type in tge p/n: Michigan xyz123
As a google search
I have gotten lucky that way a time or two

 

[kshansen]

Although everything I need is right in your backyard over at Smith's and I'll likely head over there first and see if they're in a selling mood.
Pull up Google satellite view and look in the pits off of stump rd & count loaders, I haven't done it recently but last time I did was over 30 not counting what's piled up inside buildings.

You mean this image? A little hard to say what all those little yellow bits are but would not be surprised to find a few good parts!


Not sure if there are still some old B-model Macks there but know back when the quarry I worked for had one they wanted to get rid of many found there way over there!

 

[Burnt.Fingers]

The loaders are all out in the pits, and the parts barn is by itself near the homestead.
I dont recognize the pile you showed, that might be one of the boys places.

 

[Burnt.Fingers]

Pulled the other 3 clutch packs apart.
Fwd as you know was toast.
2&4 all looks like new, with the seals intact.
1&3 had 3 failed release springs with minimal clutch damage & both seals intact.
Reverse had several spring failures that took out all of the sintered bronze discs along with the inner drum seal.
Hard to believe it was moving so well in reverse with that kind of damage.
Looks like I'll need 10-12 bronze discs,
4-5 steel discs, inner and outer seals for all 4 pistons and of course 40 new release springs.

 

[Burnt.Fingers]

I'm cleaning and inspecting everything in the transmission system for any leftover debris.
Went to blow out the external oil lines that lubricate the clutches with filtered oil from the cooler.
Line to the forward and 2nd& 4th clutches no air will pass thru which means there was no oil to those clutches.
Line to 1st & 3rd is open so 1&3 was getting oil
But line from 1&3 to reverse clutches no air will pass thru so reverse wasn't getting oil.
These hoses are not standard hydraulic hose, they have a very tiny ID I'm assuming to control the flow to the clutches.
No debris will come out of the hoses when I try to clean them or rod them out, it appears they're not plugged but they've collapsed.
Its definitely not what I expected to find when I checked these hoses.

 

[DMiller]

Nothing special except Old, any 1/4" or close ID line will be fine on this., line size matched to fitting size is normal and swelling internally happens.

 

[Burnt.Fingers]

Okay on the lines, the fittings from the cover to the quill are not sealed there anyhow and will overflow and looks like any extra oil in the clutch drum can just dump out the center gear into the cover and drain into the sump like it's supposed to.
Thanks, I'll replace those 4 old lines with new 1/4".

 

[kshansen]

Nothing special except Old, any 1/4" or close ID line will be fine on this., line size matched to fitting size is normal and swelling internally happens.

Not being familiar with the size of the lines I would just look at the best looking on of the bunch and see what the I.D. of it is and just find some generic hydraulic hose close to that size. Some of the real old hoses had very heavy sidewalls for low pressure hoses.

Just off the top of my head if you have a hose shop near by that makes up hoses I'd be looking at maybe a #06 hose in what they call a medium pressure single wire hose. I can just about guarantee that would be the last time you or anyone else would need to replace one of them!

 

[Komatsu 150]

It's the forward clutch cover to be precise.
I agree rebuilding clutch packs on the bench will be a more controlled environment
However, I'm going to explore doing it in the frame, as I mentioned in the initial post reverse is working perfect and strong in every speed and so replacing those clutches is not needed at this point.

I just acquired this machine with no fwd, it has 7500 hrs on the clock, the fellow I bought it from purchased it in the late 70s in this same condition with little to no forward travel and never used it much or attempted to repair it.

I bought my first Michigan 75A serial 9xxx in 1980, that machine is almost identical to the 1CA3560 above and it's still running strong and used almost daily, I've got 40 years of operating these loaders under my belt.
I was also fortunate early on when I bought that first loader to meet a guy named DJ Smith Marcellus, NY who called himself "The Michigan Man"
And rightfully so, I dont believe there was anyone who knew more about these loaders or had more of them stacked up on shelves and out on his property then Don Smith.

Don taught me alot about maintaining my 75A loader but regrettably I never had transmission trouble and hes passed on now and too late to have that conversation with him.
RIP DJ
View attachment 222884

I've done it in the machine several times on ours. Not that hard. Usually if it works in reverse and not forward, it's the reverse clutch that's bad. pieces in between the plates. Been my experience anyway.

 

[Burnt.Fingers]

I've done it in the machine several times on ours. Not that hard.

I gave it alot of thought, but when 3 out of 4 clutches failed the pressure test, I yanked it out and real happy I did.
Forward, reverse & 1&3 clutch packs all have broken release springs that got loose & tore up bronze discs and torn up the inner and outer piston seals.
Orings are leaking behind all 4 clutch bearing caps.
I'll be able to do a much better rebuild out of the frame than I could have done leaving it in.
The return lines from the cooler that lube the clutches were collapsed and not delivering oil.
I'm not sure that caused the carnage but it sure didnt help.
Now if I could just locate all the parts needed!!