Ripping Pot holes

[tinnerjohn]

I'm new to operating a grader, looking for some tips on pothole repair. I finally got brave last fall and used the ripper. Roll-spread 57's thick, ripped and graded. Wondering if I'd be better off using larger stone to work into the hole, then top dressing with 57's. Unfortunately for me there are not many townships with gravel roads and experienced operators around here, so this forum as well as the online manuals have been very helpful. John

 

[Bls repair]

I’ve found if you just fill the holes in the stone bounces out . If you scarified to a depth of 6 -8 inches or more and grade and roll the road it last longer.

 

[tinnerjohn]

My experience exactly. Shallow holes can be graded out but the deeper ones need to be tore up and refilled and packed. We've only had the grader one season, last fall I thought I was making progress but after the last couple months of freeze/thaw I wonder! At least I'll get a lot of practice in a couple more months.

 

[Cat 140M AWD]

When you have pot holes only way to fix them is to cut them all the way out and relay them also if you have pot holes your road doesn’t have enough crown I teach a hands on Motor Grader training with the South Dakota LTAP I got a gravel road maintenance manual I use for teaching will get some pictures of it and post it up here.

 

[tinnerjohn]

That would be great if you could post the pictures. I have a copy of an LTAP manual but it may not be the same. I've got a 4 to 5% crown on most all of them. Its nowhere near as bad as previous years. I don't know how long it had been since they were graded and previous trustees didn't think it was necessary to put material on. Also, last summer I was able to have them sprayed with calcium chloride, which really helped with wash boarding. Also, I attended an LTAP class last summer where the instructor noted that the stone available in this area (limestone) is not as durable as that in other parts of the country. I found out last week I can get it from another source, a little more a ton, but its a harder stone. I'm going to try that. if nothing else I shouldn't loose it as fast. The only problem is the farmers will have to buy their own lime for the downwind fields!

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

I'm new to operating a grader, looking for some tips on pothole repair. I finally got brave last fall and used the ripper. Roll-spread 57's thick, ripped and graded. Wondering if I'd be better off using larger stone to work into the hole, then top dressing with 57's. SNIP

What are 57s? We label base by its sized here in TX. Flex base is 1.5" and down. Std road base is .75" and down. Both are crushed granite. For example.

 

[ovrszd]

Yeah, I don't know 57's either. Learned years ago that gravel is called many different things dependent on location.... We use 1 1/4" crushed limestone here. Includes fines. Can't quote the ratios off the top of my head.

I have a 5 shank scarifier on the front of my machine. Persistent pot holes have to be ripped. I just rip deep enough to penetrate the bottom of the hole. Then I patiently drag, backdrag, drag, backdrag the loose material I've created breaking it down to small size pieces. Backdrag smooth. Then diligently pack with the grader tires.

This should be done with moisture in the material if possible.

 

[tinnerjohn]

57 according to a search is stone that will pass thru an 1 1/2" sieve. Its usually about 1" or smaller, depending on the source. That's something I'm learning by talking to the delivery drivers. I think the key is patience, as ovrszd pointed out. The ones I've done I only hit a couple times, then packed the grader tires. What our roads really need is rebuilt from the bottom up, maybe if I win the lottery. John

 

[ovrszd]

57 according to a search is stone that will pass thru an 1 1/2" sieve. Its usually about 1" or smaller, depending on the source. That's something I'm learning by talking to the delivery drivers. I think the key is patience, as ovrszd pointed out. The ones I've done I only hit a couple times, then packed the grader tires. What our roads really need is rebuilt from the bottom up, maybe if I win the lottery. John

I hear ya on the lottery. We have 50 miles of roads. $54,000 Annual Budget.

 

[Bls repair]

John ,Are these county roads or private roads ?

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

I hear ya on the lottery. We have 50 miles of roads. $54,000 Annual Budget.

I think our county may have you beat on that. My neighbor is a Commissioner and mentioned that he has a road budget of only $35k, and this county like most TX counties is not small... Fortunately frost heaves and ice damage are pretty much not a thing in Central Texas.

 

[RenoHuskerDu]

57 according to a search is stone that will pass thru an 1 1/2" sieve. Its usually about 1" or smaller, depending on the source.

Hmm, that would be our 1.5" and down Flex base. But otoh there are plenty of 1.5" sharp stones in ours. I guess gravel and base vary widely by region. There's a guy on GoolagTube who does excellent work videos (needs a gf badly) and his quarry is all shale rock which looks super easy to work. (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUujfNBK9uv3cIW-P5PX7vA)

 

[tinnerjohn]

These are township roads. The base is (other than the stone that's built up over the years) sandy clay. The biggest problem is the traffic volume and speed has risen dramatically over the last 10 years or so. I also have sections that have remnants of chip/seal that was started but never kept up. When you rip that out you have chunks to deal with. I (and some of the residents) feel like I'm making progress. I started this thread and posted on the "Blading Backwards" to add to my knowledge. I have big hopes for spring, we'll see what happens! I'd like to thank everyone on this forum, I found it last year when we got our grader and I think I've learned from it. At least so far nobody has yanked me out of the truck or grader, and the school bus drivers use all their fingers when they wave. John

 

[Bls repair]

You just had me confused when you said “ maybe if I hit the lottery”.

 

[Willie B]

Dig them out deep as you can. scarify a good distance past them. Grade them. Then prevent them. Potholes are a symptom of poor drainage. Your road should be a highway in the sense that it is higher than the surrounding land. Install culverts if water wants to cross a road.

I like a roadbed of large stone only. 6" is about right. Water drains through stone. Next layer of smaller (2") crushed or screened stone enough to fill the voids of the top layer of bigger stones.

Top layer of crushed aggregate, here we call it pack mix. It is available in 1-3/4 minus.
A private road needs a crown, 4" higher in center than on the edge. I like a 15' wide road traveled surface plus shoulders. Drive on it with 2 wheels in the center. This prevents low wheel tracks where water pools.
When climbing steep hills, use four wheel drive, this prevents washboards.

 

[Jonas302]

I always find it interesting how road materials and names for them vary widely across the country which also makes advice from different areas to be taken with caution also.
We run class 5 and class 1 gravel on our roads washboards and holes have to be cut all the way out always with just the blade but we try not to have them getting that deep anyways the only time we rip is to pull rock into a frost hole that they dont want to dig out rest of the year we carry packer or ice cutter on the ripper. Front scarifiers are unused on these types of roads last one we had was rusted in place
Certain weather conditions like what we had last fall chloride roads will fail and pothole terribly then they have to be cut and remixed
Main thing is to get to the bottom of the hole however you need to Also dumping oversize rock in a mudhole has a way of haunting you later it has to be deep enough not to show up at the surface

 

[Willie B]

I've often thought a rumble strip in the center of a two lane road would be a good way to prevent potholes. People tend to drive in the center of a gravel 2 lane. Traffic in one set of wheel tracks both ways wears wagon ruts where water collects. Every tire splashing through a small puddle splashes away gravel.

 

[Willie B]

We have a nearby town 50 miles of gravel road. Best roads in VT. 2 man road crew fill potholes twice a week, or immediately after rain. Every little puddle gets overfilled with pack mix. The Road Commissioner says he can fill every pot hole before noon. It'd take him three weeks to grade them all. He feels it's a waste of time to grade if he can't roll them immediately. Loose gravel gets torn up fast!

 

[tinnerjohn]

Rolling does make a difference. I have a short section I tried that on last fall, graded it then articulated so the steer was offset the width of the tire and just drove back and forth, using the weight of the grader to compact the surface. Really helped. I try different techniques, what works on one road doesn't necessarily work everywhere, depending on the road, traffic and other variables. What helps is when my wife reminds me what they were like 3 years ago when I became responsible for them. John

 

[Willie B]

John D Rockefeller Jr. had many miles of carriage roads built in several places. Those I've seen were on Mount Desert Island ME. During the Great Depression he employed hundreds of men to build them. He had exacting specifications. The road was laid out. Any soil not ideal was removed. Drainage structures were placed, The roadbed was placed using a template involving a 20' wide roadbed with 6" crown to both sides. This changed to one side on sharp corners. 6" stones were the crowned bed covered by at least 6" deep layer of 1/2" crushed stone.

His roads 85 years later are in excellent condition. I'll concede they have no high speed auto traffic, but heavy wagons & 6 1500 LB horses can be rough on a road.