DMiller
Senior Member
Got my numbers reversed 4/0 4/0 2/0 Triplex feeder. NEC only required Quadruplex for Commercial Three Phase last I knew.
That law changed 199? Now four conductors. Drive ground rods, connect to concrete rebar, ETC. at the outbuilding.The ground on a sub panel is established at the sub panel by driving a ground rod into the ground. The three wires going to the sub panel should be 2 hots and a neutral. The 2 hots being 120 volts each when measured to ground and 240 volts when measured between each other.
No, in most cases code is not retroactive. What was legal when it was installed is legal now. I believe I see a piece of UF 2 wire plus ground from the tandem breaker. That was never kosher. He has several other issues; broken conduit ETC.We're long past what the code says. I agree with Willie without proving it, the only grounding connection is the service entrance, so any downstream panels have to have the neutral isolated from ground (just remove the screw for the neutral bus and add a ground bus) with four wire feed, UNLESS it's a 240 load without a neutral, only ground (like TPG's pump house probably was before his guy cobbled into it).
It would work just fine though, it has for years and probably killed no one from just a shared neutral and ground. You'd have to be get several things wrong at the same time to get killed. Is your stove and dryer hooked up with a three wire plug? same thing. If I was looking at the wiring in question, I bet it could work just fine for everything he wants out of it, a new feed isn't needed, but I bet that's what he'll get from an electrician. (just like he probably wouldn't take a pump apart and do half a rebuild on it).
I've seen quite a few pump houses wired this way, some of them you could tell the PH started life with just a 120v 12/10 gauge feeding it... then somewhere down the road they put in a bigger 240v pump and had to move a wire in the main panel and change wires in the PH for the lights to not blow! and now they have the 120v lights returning to groundWhat I meant is we all know these additions aren't to code.
2 wire with ground is fine for a 240V only load with no neutral, like his pump probably was.
120 220 240 208 277 480 595 115 to name a few I've seen here in the usa. It's more interesting this wayIt's times like this I love the fact that in the UK 240V single phase is standard power in ALL domestic installations. Appliances, lights, power sockets, makes no difference. An advantage is that it requires smaller diameter cables for the same current draw.
There's none of this 120V to run the lights, power sockets, etc, and 240 to run the stove, dryer, etc. That's just too f'kin complicated.
I just made a bowl of popcorn - you boys crack on .........
If I'm not mistaken there are both insulated conductors of a 2 wire + ground cable connected to the same hot leg. If this functions it is supplying 30 + 30 = 60 amps to the bare ground conductor serving as a neutral.I've seen quite a few pump houses wired this way, some of them you could tell the PH started life with just a 120v 12/10 gauge feeding it... then somewhere down the road they put in a bigger 240v pump and had to move a wire in the main panel and change wires in the PH for the lights to not blow! and now they have the 120v lights returning to ground
You do not use four conductors for single phase until you reach the service disconnect. This is the service. Downstream of the service disconnect, there is a ground system. From there on we separate ground from neutral. In this case I believe his service disconnect is on a post outside his home. From this post it branches three ways, home, shop, and pump house.Working in the power station was unique
Everything was bonded to ground
Every conduit rerod tip anything metal in the plant cross connected with a bolted 4ga copper conductor and all interconnected to grid ground lattice across the yards.
NEC is well beyond safety function where even the REA here accepts triplex feeders to common rural structures.
Three conductors at pole mounted service supply with ground connected to the Neutral with a 8ga copper conductor to a copper plate at the buried pole butt around 6 1/2 feet in the soil. No separate ground to connect that fourth wire to where they accept a 8’ground rod (Single) at structure edge. Do not exactly follow NEC specs out here.
I'm absolutely sure I might have no idea what's going on. You have a picture at least, I have a description from somebody who's real good at injection pumpsIf I'm not mistaken there are both insulated conductors of a 2 wire + ground cable connected to the same hot leg. If this functions it is supplying 30 + 30 = 60 amps to the bare ground conductor serving as a neutral.
Bonding is done between GROUNDED & GROUNDING busses in the service disconnect. It is also done all over the place with hot tubs, pools, and cow barns. Connecting the boxes & frames of electrical equipment is grounding. One of the insulated conductors usually white being connected to earth at the service disconnect is called GROUNDED.
We've gone off track TPG has a breaker supplying hois shop giving him 2 30 amp circuits to his shop at 120 volts. This all seems to be done with a 2 conductor cable. He ain't gonna get 240 without some changes.
Some manufacturers offer tandem 240 volt breakers. As he still wants to service 120 volt loads, he ought to have at least three insulated conductors. I would want ground also in this cable.
Amen to that !And I agree - to have a 240v and sleep good at night run four wires!