Is offroad fuel thing of the past?

[wornout wrench]

I've never had a problem with marked diesel, but have had issues with marked gasoline.

Dye separated out of the gas and eventually filled the float bowl of my generator with useless red juice.

My neighbor had been running marked (farm) gas in his late model low mile Toyota pickup, clogged up his catalytic converter in short order, Toyota dealer said the only low mile plugged cats they've seen where all running marked gasoline.

Maybe the guys are getting a little generous with the dye?

Around here marked diesel isn't much cheaper than clear if your not buying copious amounts.

We had a few incidents of this too and I believe the outcome was too much dye

 

[donkey doctor]

I remember back in the 60's my grandpa has drums of farm gasoline to run in his two Ford 8N tractors. I don't know if it was dyed or not, but I haven't heard of farm gas in 50 years or so, surprised they still have it in Canada.

Still easy to get. Most gas stations have a pump. Used for boats, lawn mowers, chain saws etc etc Hardly worth buying unless you use a lot as not a big difference in price. I find it's more of a hassle keeping track of which container it's in so it doesn't end up in my truck than it's worth for the savings. d.d.

 

[92U 3406]

Used to be referred to as purple gas.

You can fish for bass, cut your grass and drink that purple gas ~ Corb Lund

 

[JBrady]

No argument here on the two being different. Theoretically, they are the same fuel. I would say the one watch out on red diesel is that it might not turnover nearly as much as the on road diesel. There is only one fuel station in my town that sells red diesel and I don't think they sell a lot of it. They might be filling their on road storage tanks every week, but go much longer between refills of their red diesel. The first time I ever bought red diesel from them, it fouled the fuel filter in my skid steer within 30 mins of filling it. It soured me on it for a while, but I haven't had any problems with it since. Seems like it is usually about 0.40/gal cheaper.

 

[check]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dyes

"Fuel dye in North America
In the United States of America, the Environmental Protection Agency mandates use of a red dye to identify high-sulfur fuels for off-road use."

But then, wiki is wrong on lots of stuff.

 

[Welder Dave]

When was the Wiki written?

 

[terex herder]

Offroad diesel should all be ULSD now. Tier 4f isn't going anywhere (sadly).

Yes, it too will give way. To tier 5.

School busses and fire trucks can use red fuel on road.

 

[Welder Dave]

I don't know if dyed fuel relates to higher Sulphur fuel anymore or just means the fuel isn't taxed.

 

[hosspuller]

I don't know if dyed fuel relates to higher Sulphur fuel anymore or just means the fuel isn't taxed.

As my previous post... The EPA doesn't allow any diesel except ULSD, Road or Off-road since 2014 in the USA. So the only difference is dye & taxes $ $ $ $ $ $

This means any diesel made and sold since 2014 is ULSD.

 

[Mike L]

I could be wrong but I believe up here in the north during the winter months all diesel fuel gets cut with k-1? To help keep the fuel from gelling. Back when I was at the stealership we had a tier4i machine with horrible regen issues and after a fashion and a fuel test it was found that the fuel wasn’t burning hot enough to allow the machine to properly regen. The company only had the one tier 4 machine so it was the only one affected.

 

[hosspuller]

I could be wrong but I believe up here in the north during the winter months all diesel fuel gets cut with k-1? To help keep the fuel from gelling. Back when I was at the stealership we had a tier4i machine with horrible regen issues and after a fashion and a fuel test it was found that the fuel wasn’t burning hot enough to allow the machine to properly regen. The company only had the one tier 4 machine so it was the only one affected.

Interesting thoughts. K1 kerosene has 0.04 percent sulfur (ASTM D 3699-90) ULSD is regulated to be 15 parts per million max. To convert from ppm to percent, divide the ppm by 10,000 15/10,000 = 0.0015 % Sulfur.

Looks like ULSD is much lower than K1 Kerosene. Likely K1's 26 times greater sulfur poisoned the T4 emission stuff.

To protect Tier 4 engines, I would use D1 not Kerosene in Winter. I wonder if ULSD would be okay in unvented Kerosene heaters ?

 

[hosspuller]

Further reading … There is such a beast as ULS Kerosene … It's NOT K1

Kerosene
Energy Petroleum Company offers K1 kerosene (400ppm max sulfur). K1 kerosene (conforming to ASTM D 3699 Specifications), which has a maximum sulfur content of 400ppm, is used primarily for space heating.

Ultra-low sulfur kerosene (15ppm max sulfur) is also available in limited quantities for blending with ULSD to improve cold flow properties during frigid temperatures.

http://www.energypetroleum.com/kerosene.html

 

[Mike L]

I’m not 100% sure it’s k-1 but I’ve heard plenty of talk about a winter blend.

 

[CM1995]

Off Road fuel and the difference in price from On Road depends on the State, County and City it's delivered in as all those entities tack on taxes. Of course Fed taxes are all the same.

Here in Central AL I can save around $.27 a gallon having red fuel delivered to our yard compared to buying green fuel at the pump.

We have a 500 gal off-road tank so we save around $135 per 500 gal, which isn't a great amount of cash but when you add the convenience of fueling up your slip tank at the yard daily the savings start to add up.

 

[Delmer]

As my previous post... The EPA doesn't allow any diesel except ULSD, Road or Off-road since 2014 in the USA. So the only difference is dye & taxes $ $ $ $ $ $

This means any diesel made and sold since 2014 is ULSD.

During the transition, and for some time after, the old fuel was sold as red dyed off road. That was a while ago. Winter blend is still ULSD as far as I know.

WI has some of the higher fuel taxes, $.309/gal for state tax, on top of $.184/gal for gasoline, and $.244 for diesel, for a total of $.553/gal diesel tax. The offroad diesel at a pump is usually between $.50 and $.25 cheaper than taxed fuel, so the retailer is charging more for the offroad, but it's a lower volume sale too. Just like a K1 pump will be much higher.

 

[Coaldust]

Interesting, the ULSD distributed in Alaska is sold without dye. Off-road fuel is clear. The explanation I heard is there is not enough storage to keep it separate. With the new IMO standards, even the marine industry has switched to 15ppm ULSD, which will make fuel prices on the coast rise as we head into 2020.

Also, I was under the impression that all the diesel #2 and diesel #1/ Jet-A/ home heat oil was ULSD (less than 15 ppm sulfur). But, I know two distributors in SE Alaska selling #1 home heat oil with 350 ppm sulfur. I didn't think you could source that from a North American rack. Turns out, much of the fuel being distributed in SE is Alaska is coming from the Singapore Rack.

 

[Nige]

350ppm sulphur diesel is pretty much the same as what comes out of the refineries in Trinidad in the Caribbean.
If the fuel was produced from Venezuelan crude the sulphur content would likely be 1500-2200ppm.

 

[Tinkerer]

I didn't think you could source that from a North American rack. Turns out, much of the fuel being distributed in SE is Alaska is coming from the Singapore Rack.

I never heard of those racks. Could you explain please ?

 

[Birken Vogt]

It a generic term. i.e. the "rack" at the refinery where you pull up your fuel truck, rail car, cargo ship, etc. and get a load. Think a rack of hoses where you get product.

 

[old-iron-habit]

On off road fuel the bulk dealers here can still can sell diesel with no Bio in it. You have to ask or you get the bio mix. The winter blend is normally 60/40 mix, #2/#1. All road fuel still has to have the bio percentage in it. We use all non bio. It can sit in the bulk tank or the machine for 20 years and still be good. Bio is **** in no time.