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DPF removal on C9
- Thread starter satkinson
- Start date
Mobiltech
Senior Member
He definitely had to have aftermarket software to do the delete. We see it a lot here in sask. But most deletes are done on highway trucks and personal vehicles.
Contrary to all the horror stories I’ve read on the other thread we have very few problems on deleted and tuned trucks. We do however have no ridiculous shutdowns due to plugged DPF or bad def fluid. We also have way better power and better fuel economy. Sorry for you guys that don’t want to hear that.
Our day will come that we have to follow the emissions rules but I hope I’m retired by then.
Contrary to all the horror stories I’ve read on the other thread we have very few problems on deleted and tuned trucks. We do however have no ridiculous shutdowns due to plugged DPF or bad def fluid. We also have way better power and better fuel economy. Sorry for you guys that don’t want to hear that.
Our day will come that we have to follow the emissions rules but I hope I’m retired by then.
Last edited:
Nige
Senior Member
The software for the delete is often nothing more (or at least very broadly similar to) what the factory would install on a machine being exported to a country where there are no emissions regulations. Cat refer to them as LRC (Less Regulated Countries). That software won't be looking for the DPF and all the other sensors related to the emissions package therefore it won't set off alarms.
I'm like my learned friend above. I've been lucky to work in LRC areas all my life so I don't have to cope with it, and when I hear all the horror stories especially on smaller engines I sincerely hope I'm out of the business before it becomes compulsory.
I'm like my learned friend above. I've been lucky to work in LRC areas all my life so I don't have to cope with it, and when I hear all the horror stories especially on smaller engines I sincerely hope I'm out of the business before it becomes compulsory.
John C.
Senior Member
I'm not a lot of help with Cat electronics will always cede the knowledge base on generators to those who do that work all the time. However I have extensive experience on centrifugal water pumps and can say with deep experience that a diesel engine turning one of those will be at close to full output all the time unless the flow of water is restricted. In the case of watching the amount of water going through those wash plants, I'd say there is no way they were lightly loaded enough to plug up the DPF unless something was wrong with the engine to start with. My other problem with the story is that I haven't seen a DPF installed on a water pump engine just yet. Maybe a shade tree rigged a truck engine onto the water pump. Who knows?
wornout wrench
Senior Member
I found that there is a very steep learning curve and it applies to all levels of the company.
The driver/operator needs to be trained and understand the system and learn what the repercussions of his actions will be. Simple things like if it is the middle of a burn.
Management needs to learn the same. If said driver or operator is in the middle of a burn or some other system generated operation, don't tell then to shut it down and start over or shut it off and go home.
And to the mechanics. Not every after treatment issue will be repaired by forcing a regen. Learn the system.
The company I was working for before I retired had an interesting time when we first got Tier4 and Tier4 final, but over time we managed to get everyone onto the same page and the amount of times that the machines were down slowly decreased.
We have C9's in some of our machines. We looked at trying to delete but once again dealer support would go away and since we are a "Green" company we had to keep all of this stuff on.
So we learned.
Funny thing, on the trucks with the DD16's in them. They could derate 10% and the drivers didn't even notice, at a 25% derate they would come in and say that it just didn't seem to have the zip it used to.
I refuse to watch Goldrush. I watched the one little segment about the C9 from the link above.
My question is what were they doing that caused the issue in the first place.
The driver/operator needs to be trained and understand the system and learn what the repercussions of his actions will be. Simple things like if it is the middle of a burn.
Management needs to learn the same. If said driver or operator is in the middle of a burn or some other system generated operation, don't tell then to shut it down and start over or shut it off and go home.
And to the mechanics. Not every after treatment issue will be repaired by forcing a regen. Learn the system.
The company I was working for before I retired had an interesting time when we first got Tier4 and Tier4 final, but over time we managed to get everyone onto the same page and the amount of times that the machines were down slowly decreased.
We have C9's in some of our machines. We looked at trying to delete but once again dealer support would go away and since we are a "Green" company we had to keep all of this stuff on.
So we learned.
Funny thing, on the trucks with the DD16's in them. They could derate 10% and the drivers didn't even notice, at a 25% derate they would come in and say that it just didn't seem to have the zip it used to.
I refuse to watch Goldrush. I watched the one little segment about the C9 from the link above.
My question is what were they doing that caused the issue in the first place.
crane operator
Senior Member
So I'm going to ask a question that I've asked before, and haven't gotten a good answer for. What are we supposed to do with tier 4 cranes? Take a single engine truck crane/ or boom truck, it has to be big enough engine, to move a 90,000lbs rig down the road, so the customers/ company sells/ installs a 500hp engine. Then when we get to the job site, it has to sit and idle 1/2 the day, and "working hard" only turns a set of hydraulic pumps that you could pull with a 80 hp engine. There is no effective way to "run it hard".
All my trucks and cranes are pre 2002. I don't own anything new enough to have def. A old 6-71 I have will just burn a little blue for the first 3-4 miles after its been on a jobsite for a week, burning out the slobber from the exhaust manifold. Somehow I don't think that kind of use is going to work with def equipment. I have had a little experience with regen, and that engine in that particular crane was a nightmare. The company that owned it gave up on it last month and sold it.
Keep everything pre 2002 until I absolutely have to?
John C.
Senior Member
I've seen and heard of issues like yours on city owned equipment. A boom truck or big man lift sits at idle while people are in a precarious position. Sometimes a big excavator or crane is working underground utilities and might have to sit at idle for a couple of hours while working through traffic jams of fiber optics, phone cables, oil and gas pipelines and who knows what else. I even had to make note of the situation in my book when I got to crawler cranes. I don't know how many slobbering Cummins engines in Link-Belt cranes are left but I'm sure there must be plenty still in P&H, American and others that still might be operational. From my point of view that DPF in those situations is a fire hazard at the least and might put people in peril at the worst.
wornout wrench
Senior Member
You nailed it.
And it is a problem.
Friend of mine works in a local truck shop.
Our city fire trucks are always in the shop. ALWAYS.
He thinks, and I have to agree with him, that there should be exemptions for certain applications.
I have no knowledge on military spec. Do they run Tier4?
I just can't imagine trying to run some kind of maneuver and having an issue.
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
As far as I know military engines have a tag that says "national defense exemption" or something like that.
They make the rules but they don't have to play by them.
crane operator
Senior Member
EPA and the military had a big go around with one another a year or two back, over military surplus trucks. All the used military trucks were originally built non epa compliant, and the epa wasn't happy with those being turned loose in U.S. market.
I don't know what became of the lawsuit (how the gov't sues itself in gov't court is something I try not to think about too hard
). But they only shut sales of the surplus trucks down for a couple months. The 8.3 cummins that I took from two military trucks were not built to comply with anything epa.
The newest AT type trucks I saw last time on base, had a computer controlled CAT engine in it, I don't know if it had any emissions components.
I don't know what became of the lawsuit (how the gov't sues itself in gov't court is something I try not to think about too hard
). But they only shut sales of the surplus trucks down for a couple months. The 8.3 cummins that I took from two military trucks were not built to comply with anything epa. The newest AT type trucks I saw last time on base, had a computer controlled CAT engine in it, I don't know if it had any emissions components.
TDI guy
Member
The military does not run tier 4. They know it doesn't work. In some applications, they still run brand new 2-cycle detroit engines as they have a standing contract with detroit till like 2040. The best thing to do in a application like this is run pre-emissions stuff if you are paranoid about deleting something.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
Tony Beets was fined $31,000 for deliberately setting the fire in the pond. Biggest piece of evidence was footage aired on the show. Who knows about the water pump, maybe Volvo wanted to show problems with a Cat engine?
https://www.yukon-news.com/news/rea...y-fined-31000-for-violating-yukon-waters-act/
Welder Dave
Senior Member
Gold Rush is getting stupider all the time. A single axle tank truck is 40 tons??? It wouldn't even be 40,000lbs.!
Blocker in MS
Senior Member
Ok, so I have read the article (could not get the video to play so far but I am in MS). WHY did he pour the gasoline into water?
Welder Dave
Senior Member
Dramatic effect and/or stupidity. I think Discovery should have been charged. They filmed an illegal activity and you would think they would do some research on what the environmental rules are for gold mines.
Blocker in MS
Senior Member
That is a little crazy. You would think everyone around would know better than to do that. I thought they might have had some reason for doing this other than dramatic effect. I do not watch that show, so was curious.
DefenderHD
Well-Known Member
Hahaha. I wonder who was behind the screen on that computer.....
The pump has never run so well and never skipped a beat...so I've been told.
Military is exempt. I saw Military Cat dozers and export dozers on the line in 2016. They still make the “older” stuff we just can’t have it
the emergency services begged for an exemption for Tier 4, EPA said no
The dpf is driving me nuts on one of our D6T.
The engine is in fairly good condition, but it keeps shutting down on me.
How would EPA even know if I get it deleted? No one ever done sniff test on mine.
Has anyone ever seen sniff test done on equipment?
The engine is in fairly good condition, but it keeps shutting down on me.
How would EPA even know if I get it deleted? No one ever done sniff test on mine.
Has anyone ever seen sniff test done on equipment?