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Buying older dump

suladas

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I get your point about wanting 400 hp to move a hoe that size but unless you have good size hills it's a non issue to me while I agree everything is priced to high at the moment I have spotted some decent tandems under 30 grand with c12 3306 ism l10 to name a few and for the most part are good engines

I have a buddy that does pools he has a ford with a 3208 and pulls a 314 with a hammer on it I have also pulled backhoes on a service truck and tag with a dt 466 now I know that's not a fair comparison but both those motors are rated under 300 hp and do an ok job it's not a hot rod

Point is when buying used trucks beggers can't always be choosers and if the difference is keeping money in your pocket and taking an extra 20 minutes to move a machine or have payments so you can pass other trucks on the freeway I will be cheap

Also it is not that big of an undertaking to put a hitch and airlines on a truck if you have more than 2500 into it something may have gone wrong

If you buy an older truck and take care of it do the little extras to keep it in good shape they last a long time and most of all it is paid for work or not it can afford to sit there

We don't have that many hills here and most of my moves are in the city, but right now i'm pulling it with 330hp with a 6 speed allison and I know it's pushing the truck right to the limits. I know a standard will have more power, but i'd be scared of killing a 20 year old 300hp motor trying to pull that much weight. Old truck was a 1989 INT with the 400 Cummins and had about 600k miles on it and even just at 50,000lbs it was enough for that truck, the motor was tired. I don't care how fast it moves it, I just don't want something that i'm going to kill in short order pulling the hoe.

Again maybe i'm just scared of old trucks, but i'm worried about trying to drill into a old frame like that and throw on a hitch and stress it in new ways. The old INT was a double frame and it was cracked and splitting in numerous places. Plus i'd rather just put that extra money into the purchase price, if i'm only spending $15k an extra say $3k goes a long ways. It cost me about $1200 for parts and labour alone just to run air lines for my trailer, the trolley lever and trailer button was already there.
 

suladas

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I understand that. Originally bought this L9000 thinking it would be a good site truck, never tag it and run red fuel but it turned out nice enough to put it on the road.

Personally I wouldn't be scared of an Allison that is 10 years old or order. Now I wouldn't want a 10 year old (or a new one for that matter) automated mechanical. Ran 2 HD4560's in an IH and Mack during the 2000's.

Even when I had a Mack Granite tri-axle with MP7 and HD4560 we didn't move our 320 size hoes- just too much weight on a tag going through our hills, valleys and traffic.

Moved a 321DL once behind a 7600 IH, C13 Cat @ 430 and HD4560 ONCE. I made a deal with the Good Lord above that if he could just see us fools safely to our destination I would never do it again - I have since kept my end of the deal.:D

Yea there's been a few times I didn't know if the truck was going to make it up the hill, crawling up in 1st barely moving. It sure makes the engine work, even at -20 the fan will kick in. There's a few hills I try to get a good run at but still drop from 65 mph to about 25 mph.

Well it's also for price. The 10-15 year old trucks that are nice and the last of the pre-emissions in an auto are worth a fortune. And if i'm only spending $20k or less i'm fine with a standard as I won't bother hiring it out, and less costs to deal with.
 

suladas

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Newer trucks are cheap for a reason, sensor goes out on the road and shuts you down. Tow bill and hook up to a computer. Older nice trucks around here are at a premium. Maintenance verses payments, Payments come every month, I like older equipment that's not eating when it's not working.

I do agree with that. I'd rather the old truck buy it with cash and just use it when I need it and not waste my time hiring it out, it doesn't make much money anyway.
 

suladas

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I'm with you, had many experiences working for companies where a sensor or electronic control shut the whole day down, and sometimes a week or more. Perfectly good running truck/machine, but an electronic signal either wasn't present or incorrect. In several cases, it was over $10K shop/parts plus the downtime to discover emissions add-ons that were faulty, or a complex ECM failure pattern.

I'm admittedly a bit of a Luddite when it comes to the latest and greatest. I've run both extensively this past 40+ years, no argument from me that improved versions of machinery have some real advantages, especially ergonomic. It does come at the cost of increased complexity.

I have lost jobs because I do not run new equipment - older but clean and well kept is what I prefer. Surprisingly, some people will pay more to have the same job done by new paint, on the premise that the machinery is better and it must follow that the operator more successful (and thus more experienced). Irks me, but those may not be the people I want for customers, anyway.

I'll run my late 90s L8000 tandem down the road alongside a new tandem any day of the week. At the end of the day, I'm betting I know which one of us takes home a little butter along with his bread.

Funny enough, the guy I use for all my trucking has 5 pretty much new kenworths and subs out the rest. Every single time i've had a truck break down it's an old one. Last one turbo blew, others like box won't go down, etc. But i'm also being unfair in the sense that one these old trucks are running pretty much everyday so it's going to happen, and some just aren't looked after. I will admit though I do prefer the newer trucks for the most part except for a few of the good old ones. Many of the old ones have bad drivers, small boxes, can't get into as tight of areas, etc. But if it's a good old truck, I don't care about age at all. The only time I specifically say I need new trucks hauling is when i'm dealing with road bans, because most can legally haul around 2-3 tons more so it makes a big difference.

Yea it depends on the customer. I find some appreciate old iron that is looked after, some want new and shiny. But a lot of people seem to be wising up and realize the best stuff is what is paid for. My stuff is kind of in the middle, oldest equipment is 2007, newest is 2013. It sure feels better running it when it's paid for though. When my mini hoe was having electrical issues I was looking hard at buying a new one, toughed it out got it fixed and since I made the last payment I like it so much more and will not get rid of it until it is completely worn out, or not worth fixing.

I am leaning towards old and paying cash. If next year is busy I want to expand and buy at least 2-3 more pieces of equipment and buying a cheaper dump will help a lot.
 
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suladas

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Here's one i've been looking at, it's been for sales at least 3 months though, seems odd it would be up for so long as it seems pretty cheap to me? I was going to take a look just to see, but it's 3 hours a way so not quite as easy to look at. Things that I like are the rims changed from the old style, ready to pull trailer on air, electric tarp, etc. Looks in decent shape for the age.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-equipment-machinery/calgary/ford-9000-phone-403-660-4436/1440047626
 

DMiller

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The drawback stares at you from the back, Air Ride, old Tractor converted to dump. First item to look for, an air bag dump system so that when use the bed to dump, the Air Ride is already down on stops, not there and a lay over looking for a place to happen. Check the frame as likely single rail not reinforced.
 

suladas

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The drawback stares at you from the back, Air Ride, old Tractor converted to dump. First item to look for, an air bag dump system so that when use the bed to dump, the Air Ride is already down on stops, not there and a lay over looking for a place to happen. Check the frame as likely single rail not reinforced.

Interesting, I had no idea from looking it was a tractor. I actually figured the air ride was a plus but partly just me being lazy it's nice for unhooking the trailer with the hoe on, and easier to load with small equipment. I figured all trucks with air suspension would have a dump switch? If it's not double frame it should be reinforced where there is a lot of stress from the dump box right?
 

suladas

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One would at least hope so. A visual inspect would be in order.

Ok. Wish it was closer to have a look. I think buying something of that age it would be a good investment to have a shop spend a least a few hours looking it over.

Provided the frame was not an issue and an inspection checked out, it would seem like a pretty good deal, no? $15k sure doesn't buy much here. And i'd gladly pay a bit more privately then auction when at least I can drive it and take it to be looked at.
 

DMiller

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Could be worth the money
Would still pay someone close to it to go give it a look first
Money well spent
 

gwhammy

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My old 1994 9400 works great for me. Not saying I pull heavy but my equipment includes a 973 cat and 200 komatsu hoe and I don't own a lowboy.
If I were to put another truck together I would look at single axles and buy a set of cutoff to make it a tandem. SA seem to be cheaper and not as beat but I'm almost 60 and this IH will probably be my last truck.
 

bam1968

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My old 1994 9400 works great for me. Not saying I pull heavy but my equipment includes a 973 cat and 200 komatsu hoe and I don't own a lowboy.
If I were to put another truck together I would look at single axles and buy a set of cutoff to make it a tandem. SA seem to be cheaper and not as beat but I'm almost 60 and this IH will probably be my last truck.

gwhammy, Are you saying you haul your 973 on a tag trailer behind a dump truck? I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure if I tried that around here that the DOT would have me pulled over immediately. In your post you didn't actually say this but since this is a dump truck thread i was assuming that's what you were saying.
 

DMiller

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Not seen much in the way of a 30 ton tag along trailer myself, a 973 would lean out to around 54K IIRC.
 

gwhammy

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I'm not saying I haul this but it is legal with a heavy haul permit as I read the laws. I do have a triple axle air ride pintle hitch trailer I pull.

I actually do a lot of farm work close to my house and will drive the loader a couple miles down the shoulder of the highway and down gravel roads. Poor people have poor ways!!
 

bam1968

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I'm not saying I haul this but it is legal with a heavy haul permit as I read the laws. I do have a triple axle air ride pintle hitch trailer I pull.

I actually do a lot of farm work close to my house and will drive the loader a couple miles down the shoulder of the highway and down gravel roads. Poor people have poor ways!!


The only reason I was questioning is years ago I worked for a guy that had a 973. He had a 3 axle lowboy and a regular 3 axle tractor. He was constantly calling the dot to get permitted to move it and even had to have an escort on some roads. I realize different states have different laws. The way the DOT have been around here lately they would probably pull you over with a D2 on the trailer. LOL
 

suladas

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Well I need to find a truck ASAP now. Maxxforce POS is in the shop, either head damage or headgasket...... Definitely listening to the good advice here of not going close to one, the thing only has 75,000 miles on it.....

Anyways here's a few trucks i'm looking at.
Leaning towards this one if it checks out. Looks like old plow truck which isn't ideal though https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ck/1452175707?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Concern I have with this one is according to my search this engine could only be max 350hp which isn't a lot but it has a 18 speed? Seems really odd to have such a small motor with a 18 speed, owner says they've had it since it was 3 years old and nothing has been changed. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ck/1451330234?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Getting pretty old I think? But like the idea of having an inframe done. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ck/1451260087?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Lots of work done, but not sure that's always good. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ck/1435611194?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Seems decent? https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ar/1423907418?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Not super interested in this, it's someone who buys from auction and flips so obviously knows nothing about it and just trying to make a buck, but kind of give me an idea of worth on others. https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...ed/1444458863?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Don't want to rush a purchase, but would like to get something right away. What truck would you guys say looks like a good buy, if any? Obviously provided it runs/drives like it looks, etc. Would prefer the cheaper end at under $15k, but if I have to spend $20k for something decent I will.
 

DMiller

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Whichever machine you get to interest enough to spend money on, even as you would have to pay up front have the seller take it to a reputable shop close by for evaluation. Money well spent to keep from having a large Lawn ornament arrive at the house.

I really do not get the exposed lift cylinder no cab guard beds. Asking for problems.
 

suladas

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Whichever machine you get to interest enough to spend money on, even as you would have to pay up front have the seller take it to a reputable shop close by for evaluation. Money well spent to keep from having a large Lawn ornament arrive at the house.

I really do not get the exposed lift cylinder no cab guard beds. Asking for problems.

For sure. As far as engine/make/year does anyone stick out to be a lot better?
I find it odd how different places do things so different. No one runs can guards here, some beds the cylinder is kind of tucked in but not the majority.
 

DMiller

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3406 was pretty bullet proof, I did not get into the E series too far before bailed on mechanic work, C series no ideas really but heard good of them, the DD 60 series seem to have their plusses and minuses as all do where any of these engines are EXPENSIVE for a full overhaul and a light in frame refresh is hardly worth the effort. Cummins up to the N11s I had little issues with, long duration pretty well sledgehammer engines. More gears the better the options on grades, locker differentials likely Meritor, have been in one that failed but managed to limp it close to 150 miles get a load off and back to a shop, kind of handy in the muck but can grenade as any can. Look for Hendrickson or some form of beam suspension between axles, more durable, less shock to the system in crossing rough country.
 
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