Buying older dump

[suladas]

Looking to buy a tandem dump this spring, largely to pull my 210 hoe around, and the occasional use otherwise. I am trying to decide between financing a $40-60k truck, or paying cash for a older $15kish truck. I hire out trucks fairly regularly for digging basements and wouldn't mind having mine working a bit but at the end of the day I know there is very little money running trucks and don't mind not having the headaches.

If I go older I would try to find a semi-retired person to run it maybe 1-2 days a week tops and run my skidsteer a bit, or if it's too difficult I would just move my hoe and use it for the odd sand for services, etc wouldn't get used much maybe on average 1 day every 2 weeks but if i'm only spending $15k I don't care if it's rarely used.

If I spend $40-60k I would need to be running the truck average of about 2-3 days a week to pay for it, if I get a good truck should make a bit of money on it, but at the same time I would have to have a driver running it.

I'm leaning towards the older truck, economy here isn't great and no idea how busy this year will be. I'd rather buy a old truck be super busy and worst case upgrade it really soon, then buying something newer and worrying about the payments.

Right now there is a 95 L9000 with Cat 3406C 500,000 miles, says 8000 hours on rebuild, 425 hp with 18 speed asking $16,500. With the hoe I will gross about 90,000lbs, I would think this would be enough power not to be too hard on the old truck? Would obviously get it inspected prior to purchase, not overly comfortable buying such a old truck at auction I just don't know enough to look it over myself. I had a 88 L9000 a few years back and was really pleased, my only complaint was the 260hp Ford motor grossing 35,000lbs wasn't a powerhouse but was reliable and incredible on fuel. I know cab rust is a big concern with these trucks.

My big concern with a truck like that is, even if it checks out good is it going to nickel and dime me to death with little stuff? I have no problem doing what I can myself, and can do stuff like water pump, starter, basic stuff but don't have the knowledge for any actual engine, etc work. I would guess it would see maybe 4000-6000 miles a year.

 

[Jonas302]

I would have a hard time justifying 40-60 on a used dump truck for your uses We run a herd of older trucks all under $20,000 if you find the right one thats in decent shape and keep up on things they pull dirt just as well as a newer no emissions crap on the old ones to worry about

The old fords are getting a little harder to get parts for mostly cab stuff ect but not to hard to keep going of course much of it is generic parts
One thing to watch for is rust buildup in the double frames pushing them apart and splitting the outer rail

As far as engines the big cats are quite reliable if it blows its usually time for another truck

A new seat and working AC and stereo goes a long ways with your drivers

 

[DMiller]

Going Corn Queen IHC can still achieve most parts to keep them viable better than the Ford chassis. Get into KW or Pete even Western Star and prices will escalate rapidly.

 

[farmerlund]

If you are the type of guy that keeps stuff for a long time, 10-20years, I would take the time to find a nice one. you will be better off in the end. I prefer KW or Petes, Parts are always available and the cabs last forever it seams like.
My currant dump is a 1996 378 with 950,000 miles. I would drive it anywhere tomorrow.

Good hunting

 

[suladas]

The more expensive truck I would be hiring out, I use one guy for all my trucking, he has 5 trucks and the rest he subs out and since I give him roughly $150k a year in business I would be one of the first. But at $85/hr, $22-$25 to driver, $30 to fuel there's not much left, so I don't feel like i'm missing out on much. There's a few guys running old trucks, and there's been a decent amount ending up broken down, but they are also running virtually everyday and who knows what maintenance is like.

First dump about 10 years ago was a 89 INT with the Cummins 400, was a great truck. Didn't need a lot of repairs, eventually got rid of it when something went in the rear end and it was getting close as per the shop that it was going to need a lot of work like kingpins and issues with double frame cracking, but it was only about $16,000 and had it for about 4 years with maybe $10k at most in repairs. Did injectors, starter, brakes, hoist, few other little things. I'd be more then happy if I could find something equal to that, and we used that truck more then i'd use this one. When I had the Ford the old dealer here said most parts are still available for the old Fords. Not sure if that means all parts, or just maintenance things.

I have no plans to expand beyond equipment I cannot run myself so if I get a good truck I am happy to keep it until it's not worth fixing.

Seller got back to me, truck has current inspection until May, only seen about 1,000 miles since last inspection as it's a spare. So good is that it hasn't been parked. Said no major rust anywhere.

If you're comparing same year, mileage everything is the KW or Peterbilt or Western Star, going to be that much more reliable and longer life? I guess seeing a truck with 1,000,000 miles scares me and thinks it's got to be worn out? I think some of the problem is some are good trucks that were looked after, but many where owned by people who patched them together, etc and are just garbage now. Some bring really good money at Ritchies other don't.

 

[DMiller]

At times is just the Side Emblems that people must have, truck is a truck is a truck unless get to Hino or Old GMC where parts are a disaster. The older L, LN, LNT/LTL Ford series parts are getting lean, the dealer here in town has access to some aftermarket and a few odd parts NOS on small stuff no large components, but for the large part they are obsoleted in inventories. Big concern there is damage repairs from others damaging your machine where parts can be obtained somewhat used but the insurers rush to that point of Total where they discount the machines to nothing. Have seen worn slick W900 KWs double the price of a LNT Ford with that ford in better but not great shape. A lot will be up to what you must afford and have room to maneuver with on repairs.

 

[suladas]

Yea I agree with that. Me I don't care what the brand is, whatever is going to be the cheapest to run and the least headaches. As long as the truck looks decent as I don't want a junker because it looks terrible showing up on a jobsite, other then that it doesn't matter. Maybe I should give the old ford dealer a call and see what they can actually source for parts. If it was in a accident though could just take payout from other company and fix yourself? There is a fair amount of the trucks kicking around, I don't think sourcing hoods, doors, etc would be difficult in decent shape. A search of kijiji and someone is parting one out with good doors and hood. Would the body/interior parts be the only hard ones? I'd guess anything else like engine, tranny, diffs, suspension would not be at all unique to ford parts? I know the fords definitely bring less money then the big names for sure. International does seem like a decent bet as they are cheaper too. But not that many older trucks in good shape around, bit harder as some of the bigger HP ones aren't plumbed for trailer on air and if i'm only spending like $15k I want something already rigged up as it's too costly to be trying to put a hitch or air lines on.

If i'm paying cash I want it $20k at the absolute most to allow room for repairs. The problem with jumping to $30k is no one wants to finance a 12-15 year old truck, in order to get any decent financing it needs to be 8 years old or newer and then i'm up into minimum $40k+ and even that's tough. And if I wait to save the extra coin, it would be probably July before I could afford it and loosing 2 months of prime working time with it.

 

[JPSouth]

Yea I agree with that. Me I don't care what the brand is, whatever is going to be the cheapest to run and the least headaches. As long as the truck looks decent as I don't want a junker because it looks terrible showing up on a jobsite, other then that it doesn't matter. Maybe I should give the old ford dealer a call and see what they can actually source for parts. If it was in a accident though could just take payout from other company and fix yourself? There is a fair amount of the trucks kicking around, I don't think sourcing hoods, doors, etc would be difficult in decent shape. A search of kijiji and someone is parting one out with good doors and hood. Would the body/interior parts be the only hard ones? I'd guess anything else like engine, tranny, diffs, suspension would not be at all unique to ford parts? I know the fords definitely bring less money then the big names for sure. International does seem like a decent bet as they are cheaper too.

I recently, and reluctantly, sold my '97 IH 2554 single axle and bought a '97 Ford L8000 tandem, mostly because the DOT is going overboard here on 100-250 pound overweight tickets. I really don't need to haul much volume for what I do, but figured as long as I had to move up in GVW I just as well get enough truck to do some legit hauling for others on the days I'm not at my regular gig. I had a concern about parts; engine, powertrain, rear ends and suspension are fairly standard makes, so no problem. Cab/chassis is harder, but I did get referred to a truck dealer in MN who is able to obtain a lot of NOS items, including doors, door parts, glass etc. I would think there is probably a similar source up there, not sure how many Fords Canada would have imported during the 80s/90s.

 

[heymccall]

My LTL9000 Ford, big cam 400, had the God awful neway air suspension. You couldn't run over a nickel without out it lifting one wheel off the ground. And, if it came back down, it would shear an axle shaft (replaced at least 5 shafts, and 4 differential carriers in the 6 years I had it).

 

[RZucker]

If that 3406C is still set up as an electronic PEEC engine, don't walk... Run away. JMO.

 

[suladas]

Haven't bought a truck yet. Went to last Ritchie's auction and just cannot see paying $20k for a 20 year old sterling with 400k-500k miles that is probably going to need a decent amount of work anything under $20k is just junk imo. And what really worried me is such an old truck still having enough power to gross 90,000lbs+. The thing that caught me off guard is how cheap the newer internationals have gotten. A 2013 with 60k miles for under $40k. I think that has to be a better way to go then a old money pit. My dad has a 2015 in the same truck with 75k miles, it's had it's fair share of problems but for the money I think it would still be less problems then a old truck.

Tell me if i'm wrong but my thinking with the international is the really bad will be the maxxforce and the wiring. Such a new truck will have a solid allison, diffs, frame, etc etc that I don't need to worry about. The emissions has had issues but worst case is delete it.

While the 20+ year old truck I have to worry about engine, tranny, diffs, anything really being that old with that many miles. Plus trying to find someone to drive it and the perception of hiring it out is so much worse then a newer truck.

For the extra $20k all I would need to do is work the truck an extra 15 hours a month to cover the cost, and I would imagine with the extra use the newer truck should cost less to keep on the road.

 

[CM1995]

Well saludas I bought a L9000 tandem at auction. It was a muni truck in really good shape.

In the process of getting it road/DOT worthy. Wiper motor, a few seals, full service, couple of brakes and 2 sway bars on the Hendrikson tandem. Paid $15K for it.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/l9000-tandem-dump.77913/

Just going to use it to move our equipment around and as a site truck. I will still hire out most of our hauling to tri-axles and our stone is delivered by the quarry's at a reasonable rate. The biggest benefit is not waiting on a lowboy to move the D5G, roller, backhoe or loader around plus it will make a good on site truck.

We'll see how it goes..

 

[AzIron]

Maxxforce is a cuss word if you ask me a rental outfit had 4 maxxforce water trucks sold them after 2 years and they were basically a give away at the auction they would not run a week without issues

I know of 21 trucks that got traded to the dealer at the end of warranty it took them 18 months to get rid of all of them maxxforce just sucks

 

[Truck Shop]

My LTL9000 Ford, big cam 400, had the God awful neway air suspension. You couldn't run over a nickel without out it lifting one wheel off the ground. And, if it came back down, it would shear an axle shaft (replaced at least 5 shafts, and 4 differential carriers in the 6 years I had it).

The Neway air uses the same pivot hangers on the axle housings as Hendrickson spring over beam or beam biscuit. It's not a bad job to remove the Neway air ride and convert to walking beam.

 

[suladas]

Well saludas I bought a L9000 tandem at auction. It was a muni truck in really good shape.

In the process of getting it road/DOT worthy. Wiper motor, a few seals, full service, couple of brakes and 2 sway bars on the Hendrikson tandem. Paid $15K for it.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/l9000-tandem-dump.77913/

Just going to use it to move our equipment around and as a site truck. I will still hire out most of our hauling to tri-axles and our stone is delivered by the quarry's at a reasonable rate. The biggest benefit is not waiting on a lowboy to move the D5G, roller, backhoe or loader around plus it will make a good on site truck.

We'll see how it goes..

Yea I seen that, nice truck. Problem i'm finding is many of the nicer old trucks like yours are auto, or low power, or no heavy pintle and air lines. I don't want to bother trying to put a hitch on a 20+ year old truck it's just too expensive to bother. I need to pull my 210 hoe so I need at a very minimum 400hp in a old truck, and I don't want an auto if it's more then about 10 years old.

 

[suladas]

Maxxforce is a cuss word if you ask me a rental outfit had 4 maxxforce water trucks sold them after 2 years and they were basically a give away at the auction they would not run a week without issues

I know of 21 trucks that got traded to the dealer at the end of warranty it took them 18 months to get rid of all of them maxxforce just sucks

Oh I agree. Some are a non stop problem. I had a maxxforce 15 a few years ago only for about a year and had no problems with it, but I didn't have it that long. My dads dump in 5 years and 75k miles has had a fair bit of problems a lot of it due to dealership incompetence that you can't blame on the truck though, but at the same time if i'm spending $40k on a truck that say a peterbilt or kenworth would cost me $70k I can deal with quite a bit problems. I will use the truck 1-2 days a week tops, and I have my dads to borrow if I need to move my hoe. The thinking also is, the only real downfalls are the motor and wiring seems to be an issue with many internationals. Other then that, it's not that much different of a truck. And having had this one for 5 years and seeing some of the problems, it helps. My brother also had a international picker which has been ok so far with the maxxforce.

I can see why someone who needs a truck everyday doesn't want one, but for someone like me who doesn't use it all the time and has a back up, saving the money seems very attractive.

 

[AzIron]

I get your point about wanting 400 hp to move a hoe that size but unless you have good size hills it's a non issue to me while I agree everything is priced to high at the moment I have spotted some decent tandems under 30 grand with c12 3306 ism l10 to name a few and for the most part are good engines

I have a buddy that does pools he has a ford with a 3208 and pulls a 314 with a hammer on it I have also pulled backhoes on a service truck and tag with a dt 466 now I know that's not a fair comparison but both those motors are rated under 300 hp and do an ok job it's not a hot rod

Point is when buying used trucks beggers can't always be choosers and if the difference is keeping money in your pocket and taking an extra 20 minutes to move a machine or have payments so you can pass other trucks on the freeway I will be cheap

Also it is not that big of an undertaking to put a hitch and airlines on a truck if you have more than 2500 into it something may have gone wrong

If you buy an older truck and take care of it do the little extras to keep it in good shape they last a long time and most of all it is paid for work or not it can afford to sit there

 

[CM1995]

Yea I seen that, nice truck. Problem i'm finding is many of the nicer old trucks like yours are auto, or low power, or no heavy pintle and air lines. I don't want to bother trying to put a hitch on a 20+ year old truck it's just too expensive to bother. I need to pull my 210 hoe so I need at a very minimum 400hp in a old truck, and I don't want an auto if it's more then about 10 years old.

I understand that. Originally bought this L9000 thinking it would be a good site truck, never tag it and run red fuel but it turned out nice enough to put it on the road.

Personally I wouldn't be scared of an Allison that is 10 years old or order. Now I wouldn't want a 10 year old (or a new one for that matter) automated mechanical. Ran 2 HD4560's in an IH and Mack during the 2000's.

Even when I had a Mack Granite tri-axle with MP7 and HD4560 we didn't move our 320 size hoes- just too much weight on a tag going through our hills, valleys and traffic.

Moved a 321DL once behind a 7600 IH, C13 Cat @ 430 and HD4560 ONCE. I made a deal with the Good Lord above that if he could just see us fools safely to our destination I would never do it again - I have since kept my end of the deal.

 

[gwhammy]

Newer trucks are cheap for a reason, sensor goes out on the road and shuts you down. Tow bill and hook up to a computer. Older nice trucks around here are at a premium. Maintenance verses payments, Payments come every month, I like older equipment that's not eating when it's not working.

 

[JPSouth]

Newer trucks are cheap for a reason, sensor goes out on the road and shuts you down. Tow bill and hook up to a computer. Older nice trucks around here are at a premium. Maintenance verses payments, Payments come every month, I like older equipment that's not eating when it's not working.

I'm with you, had many experiences working for companies where a sensor or electronic control shut the whole day down, and sometimes a week or more. Perfectly good running truck/machine, but an electronic signal either wasn't present or incorrect. In several cases, it was over $10K shop/parts plus the downtime to discover emissions add-ons that were faulty, or a complex ECM failure pattern.

I'm admittedly a bit of a Luddite when it comes to the latest and greatest. I've run both extensively this past 40+ years, no argument from me that improved versions of machinery have some real advantages, especially ergonomic. It does come at the cost of increased complexity.

I have lost jobs because I do not run new equipment - older but clean and well kept is what I prefer. Surprisingly, some people will pay more to have the same job done by new paint, on the premise that the machinery is better and it must follow that the operator more successful (and thus more experienced). Irks me, but those may not be the people I want for customers, anyway.

I'll run my late 90s L8000 tandem down the road alongside a new tandem any day of the week. At the end of the day, I'm betting I know which one of us takes home a little butter along with his bread.