John C.
Senior Member
Welder Dave, you keep jumping in on the thread mouthing opinion from other people as fact. Apparently you have a skid steer and have acknowledged that you are not a mechanic so have little to no experience. I'm trying to walk through a case history here for the benefit of all and you apparently want to make yourself look smart by walking over the intended purpose of the thread. I don't need or want a parrot for a megaphone.
I've learned to deal with fact throughout my career and what really makes me angry is when people start spouting here say and inanities that they have heard from someone else or read about in some fluff piece of advertising. The links you have provided are for the most part advertising by companies for their products or services. The only one from a manufacturer was the Dan Foss article that states start up oil cleanliness should be ISO 25/22/17 and top up should be 23/21/15. The Cross article states "most new oil from barrels is 23/21/18" but they do not provide a source for that statement. They go on to say that a hydraulic system generates more dirt over a year and gives some fantastical amount of weight that is added to the oil in the form of dirt. Again, no source for that information and they are assuming the system is making dirt and the installed filtering systems are ineffective at best and problematic at worst. They want to sell something and they are trying to make everyone else look bad to make themselves look good!
I want to make it clear that I am not against filtering oil and making sure that everything is kept as clean as possible. Following factory specified maintenance procedures is how you make a machine last to its fullest potential. What I do react to is people stating absolutes that are not true. Warranties do not state that you have to do something or else. There is also an element of fact in any failure that has to be established in order to accept or deny a warranty claim. You can tell me a pump failed because of dirty oil that I put in the system. I'll counter that you will need to prove your case or I'll see you in court. Even in the case of the pump that is the subject of this thread. Can anyone actually say that the failure is caused by dirt in the oil? The unit has more than 7,000 hours on it. Can anyone predict how much longer it might have lasted if it had a loop system installed? What would be considered normal working life of any pump of this type in this particular application? In my experience I've seen plenty of excavator hydraulic pumps fail at 6,000 to 9,000 hours of operation. Would just following the manufacture's recommended maintenance practices have made the pump last longer? How do we know that those practices weren't followed and how would we prove otherwise.
I've learned to deal with fact throughout my career and what really makes me angry is when people start spouting here say and inanities that they have heard from someone else or read about in some fluff piece of advertising. The links you have provided are for the most part advertising by companies for their products or services. The only one from a manufacturer was the Dan Foss article that states start up oil cleanliness should be ISO 25/22/17 and top up should be 23/21/15. The Cross article states "most new oil from barrels is 23/21/18" but they do not provide a source for that statement. They go on to say that a hydraulic system generates more dirt over a year and gives some fantastical amount of weight that is added to the oil in the form of dirt. Again, no source for that information and they are assuming the system is making dirt and the installed filtering systems are ineffective at best and problematic at worst. They want to sell something and they are trying to make everyone else look bad to make themselves look good!
I want to make it clear that I am not against filtering oil and making sure that everything is kept as clean as possible. Following factory specified maintenance procedures is how you make a machine last to its fullest potential. What I do react to is people stating absolutes that are not true. Warranties do not state that you have to do something or else. There is also an element of fact in any failure that has to be established in order to accept or deny a warranty claim. You can tell me a pump failed because of dirty oil that I put in the system. I'll counter that you will need to prove your case or I'll see you in court. Even in the case of the pump that is the subject of this thread. Can anyone actually say that the failure is caused by dirt in the oil? The unit has more than 7,000 hours on it. Can anyone predict how much longer it might have lasted if it had a loop system installed? What would be considered normal working life of any pump of this type in this particular application? In my experience I've seen plenty of excavator hydraulic pumps fail at 6,000 to 9,000 hours of operation. Would just following the manufacture's recommended maintenance practices have made the pump last longer? How do we know that those practices weren't followed and how would we prove otherwise.
