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239D cooling issue

jrtraderny

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Nov 26, 2006
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236
Location
New York
I've got a Cat 239D with just over 900 hrs on it , recently it's been running warmer than normal in the 203 - 208 degree range. It has the variable speed hydraulic fan that doesn't seem to be spinning fast enough to move enough air through the radiator. I've pressure washed the radiator multiple times to be sure it's clear now if I unplug the solenoid on the fan motor it will spool up and cool just fine any suggestions on how to test the solenoid or just replace it ? Also have been told that the hydraulic fan motor may need to be calibrated, any feedback on that ?
Thanks,
jr
 

92U 3406

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There's a fan speed spec for those hydraulic fans. I've had to calibrate a couple of them. You need a digital tachometer to read the fan speed. If its out of spec then you'll need CAT ET to run the fan speed calibration.
 

Vetech63

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You may want to pull that solenoid valve and make sure it isn't stuck partially open. Had that on a 299d
 

KSGENE

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I actually just went thru this mess with my 259D. I had washed the radiator several times, CAT washed and blew it out, still got hot. I finally got a 90degree fitting for the end of my pressure washer, dropped the fan and washed up thru the radiator. You would not have believed all the crap that came out. I questioned CAT several times about the fan not spooling up. Apparently on these it isn't so much variable speed as it is a two speed. They said the only time it will speed up is when it is doing a regen. Even when my hi temp warning light came on it did not spool up. But, like you said, unplug the solenoid it goes full speed. I did have mine calibrated, nothing changed.

This is the picture I took after i finally got the 90 degree fitting and started washing. About two hours later it was much better.

U4fiAzRONh-jLkbuENUYT4NjJKMmDCCdsHdGahS5vOMV-SDaub9dEbiqa8kQJSYIjxM0e1BEvuOqqNpDch1-nyHj4O2JCywfkUyS26nvyBw7p0NKKWdf_-_pfhQpA-hlCoZTmdNcWO1y-vOw4fOJMDcuW9PGM80FPgdrUlc7H9A4Kd9zLOup3XYIfwA9WQL5G-PqE03bnm6UKVsWIj5GejW6Q1ZHyHswJ9DO8LBGZmP3cgB8Gl-O7eNhPTjkSmwk8kHHW-f0PpvwfmZjq_wBEbg4VfEQMIIAN0oYHtNFC8qlWRJT0jyNKyused3lFhTg0uvFeJ5KYjIsg8xZcMcyt0AK-DgasAOPt76RwP7iFvtlbxf4dk2N7rGcVZ_K_m2FLK8f9lT_5mTZQYSHtPsXk61bO9btjhSWLRvHyhmxCIOyaGhNzOSWyePrOiEMFk6ymeiAIHs9v7wcCCOcysqKmsvPt-wJC0m45FpzysNN7hyuCh5VeaeY9ukmtl_sjsPg6Xi82WYHs4HXWE5BuPIC7rd5Fnn7O7JgX81TeolX9yIPPuQppGrvVyxeusSSxsgekTUr7FLd-OAmZ8L39HZQChnoPF7mzuixc4hT9tJD0It_Q3xk2zjgpnTTrAov9owIzXr2EjLHNrrhaXGxN2Y1gwapYp0ju0ZM=w973-h1297-no
 

jrtraderny

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Messages
236
Location
New York
You may want to pull that solenoid valve and make sure it isn't stuck partially open. Had that on a 299d
I have a new solenoid valve coming just in case , will check old one when it gets here. I ran it today with the solenoid unplugged and the temp stayed around 185 but once in awhile would bump up to 190 or so with the ambient temp around 75 degrees that still bothers me a little. Installed new thermostat last Sunday with no difference in temps . Temps verified with an infrared temp gun. Cat dealer tech line suggested water pump impeller
may be eroded ??? I'm sure the radiator is clear I've had my diagnostic camera in there and can see right through .
Thanks for the input !!
jr
 

Vetech63

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I wouldn’t worry about temps around 190, the engine temp will change just a bit depending on the load conditions. Your issue is the amount of air going through the radiator.
 

jrtraderny

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Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
236
Location
New York
There's a fan speed spec for those hydraulic fans. I've had to calibrate a couple of them. You need a digital tachometer to read the fan speed. If its out of spec then you'll need CAT ET to run the fan speed calibration.
Interesting that you'd mention the digital tachometer , I had the radiator raised on my 226B3 today and saw the reflective tape on one of the fan blades. Might just get my tach out and see if it still works .
 

jrtraderny

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Messages
236
Location
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I wouldn’t worry about temps around 190, the engine temp will change just a bit depending on the load conditions. Your issue is the amount of air going through the radiator.
That's what I'm afraid of , when I put my mower on when it's 95 degrees out and run it in High Flow . 90 minutes one way to my Cat dealer may have to make the trip.
 

jrtraderny

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Nov 26, 2006
Messages
236
Location
New York
I actually just went thru this mess with my 259D. I had washed the radiator several times, CAT washed and blew it out, still got hot. I finally got a 90degree fitting for the end of my pressure washer, dropped the fan and washed up thru the radiator. You would not have believed all the crap that came out. I questioned CAT several times about the fan not spooling up. Apparently on these it isn't so much variable speed as it is a two speed. They said the only time it will speed up is when it is doing a regen. Even when my hi temp warning light came on it did not spool up. But, like you said, unplug the solenoid it goes full speed. I did have mine calibrated, nothing changed.

This is the picture I took after i finally got the 90 degree fitting and started washing. About two hours later it was much better.


U4fiAzRONh-jLkbuENUYT4NjJKMmDCCdsHdGahS5vOMV-SDaub9dEbiqa8kQJSYIjxM0e1BEvuOqqNpDch1-nyHj4O2JCywfkUyS26nvyBw7p0NKKWdf_-_pfhQpA-hlCoZTmdNcWO1y-vOw4fOJMDcuW9PGM80FPgdrUlc7H9A4Kd9zLOup3XYIfwA9WQL5G-PqE03bnm6UKVsWIj5GejW6Q1ZHyHswJ9DO8LBGZmP3cgB8Gl-O7eNhPTjkSmwk8kHHW-f0PpvwfmZjq_wBEbg4VfEQMIIAN0oYHtNFC8qlWRJT0jyNKyused3lFhTg0uvFeJ5KYjIsg8xZcMcyt0AK-DgasAOPt76RwP7iFvtlbxf4dk2N7rGcVZ_K_m2FLK8f9lT_5mTZQYSHtPsXk61bO9btjhSWLRvHyhmxCIOyaGhNzOSWyePrOiEMFk6ymeiAIHs9v7wcCCOcysqKmsvPt-wJC0m45FpzysNN7hyuCh5VeaeY9ukmtl_sjsPg6Xi82WYHs4HXWE5BuPIC7rd5Fnn7O7JgX81TeolX9yIPPuQppGrvVyxeusSSxsgekTUr7FLd-OAmZ8L39HZQChnoPF7mzuixc4hT9tJD0It_Q3xk2zjgpnTTrAov9owIzXr2EjLHNrrhaXGxN2Y1gwapYp0ju0ZM=w973-h1297-no
That's what I didn't understand if the solenoid valve actually varied the oil flow or just dumped oil to the return. I've had my camera up in there and can't see any debris in the cores.
 

Nige

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A Serial Number would help to get exact information. Electrical Schematics differ between various Serial Number prefixes.
From what I can see the 396-4882 solenoid is referred to as the "fan demand". It is driven by a PWM driver from the machine ECM, therefore the most likely scenario is that it is completely variable between 0 and 100% and will depend on coolant temparature. Otherwise I don't see a reason for it to be driven by a PWM driver.
Edit: I was right. Taken from the machine Service Manual -
"Hydraulic Demand Fan Control
The control system will monitor engine coolant temperature, hydraulic oil temperature, intake manifold temperature, and ambient temperature to control and limit the fan speed. The monitoring is done by proportionally modulating the hydraulic oil pressure to the hydraulic fan bypass valve. This feature is also known as the engine cooling fan. This system will also run at maximum speed during a Diesel Particulate filter (DPF) regeneration cycle. This system will limit minimum fan speed to 1200 RPM anytime the Air Conditioning switch is ON."



To test the fan speed appears to require Cat ET and a phototach - see attached.
 

Attachments

  • 239D Fan Speed Test.pdf
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Last edited:

jrtraderny

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Messages
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Location
New York
A Serial Number would help to get exact information. Electrical Schematics differ between various Serial Number prefixes.
From what I can see the 396-4882 solenoid is referred to as the "fan demand". It is driven by a PWM driver from the machine ECM, therefore the most likely scenario is that it is completely variable between 0 and 100% and will depend on coolant temparature. Otherwise I don't see a reason for it to be driven by a PWM driver.
Edit: I was right. Taken from the machine Service Manual -
"Hydraulic Demand Fan Control
The control system will monitor engine coolant temperature, hydraulic oil temperature, intake manifold temperature, and ambient temperature to control and limit the fan speed. The monitoring is done by proportionally modulating the hydraulic oil pressure to the hydraulic fan bypass valve. This feature is also known as the engine cooling fan. This system will also run at maximum speed during a Diesel Particulate filter (DPF) regeneration cycle. This system will limit minimum fan speed to 1200 RPM anytime the Air Conditioning switch is ON."



To test the fan speed appears to require Cat ET and a phototach - see attached.
Serial# BL901413
 

Nige

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Thanks for the information. I can confirm that the info I posted above is correct for your machine, the fan speed control solenoid is variable type and driven by a PWM signal from the machine ECM.

If you want a copy of the Electrical Schematic click on my username and start a Conversation. Send me your email address and you're welcome to it.
 

jrtraderny

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Nov 26, 2006
Messages
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Location
New York
Thanks for the information. I can confirm that the info I posted above is correct for your machine, the fan speed control solenoid is variable type and driven by a PWM signal from the machine ECM.

If you want a copy of the Electrical Schematic click on my username and start a Conversation. Send me your email address and you're welcome to it.
So that then tells me that the ECM varies the voltage to the solenoid to control the flow of oil past the valve then. IE: varies the length of the plunger or orfice . After reading your response again, there are more variables at work here too, there must be intake manifold and ambient temperature sensors also.
Thanks Nige !!
 
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jrtraderny

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So the saga continues , picking up the 239D Monday from the cat dealer . $1500 worth of diagnostic time later nothing wrong with it and with 900 hrs. on it I shouldn't expect it to run as cool as it did when it was new.
They did calibrate the fan , so I'm going to run it and when it chucks a rod they can warranty the engine.
 

Nige

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....$1500 worth of diagnostic time later nothing wrong with it and with 900 hrs. on it I shouldn't expect it to run as cool as it did when it was new.
Did you ask them to explain the thought process that they used to come to that conclusion..? I would have, just for sh1ts & giggles. It ought to have induced a bit of squirming.......
 
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jrtraderny

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Did you ask them to explain the thought process that they used to come to that conclusion..? I would have, just for sh1ts & giggles. It ought to have induced a bit of squirming.......
Oh, tomorrow when I pick it up there will be a soul search on their part.
 

jrtraderny

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Did you ask them to explain the thought process that they used to come to that conclusion..? I would have, just for sh1ts & giggles. It ought to have induced a bit of squirming.......
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that the service writer basically told me that Caterpillar was manufacturing an inferior product that wasn't designed to have a useful life past 900 hours .
 
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