International 4300 Towing?

[NepeanGC]

Hi all,

I've got a 2005 International 4300 with a DT466 making 195hp, and a 6 speed manual. It's a bit of a weird setup, 10k front, 19k rear but with hydraulic brakes. The local international dealer said that the truck is good for 60k gcwr - not sure I believe them.

I'd like to be able to pull both my skid steer and mini ex behind it, at the same time. Combined they weight just under 20k, my research has led me to believe a suitable trailer will weigh between 6-8k. Thus putting me around the 26-28k of trailer weight.

First question - is 195 hp (530 ft lbs) and a 6 speed manual enough to even think of moving 40-45k of weight? I'm a flatlander (Ottawa Ontario), no mountains or real hills to speak of.

Second - If it is, thoughts on 2-15k axles, or 3-10k axles? Both would end up being electric over hydraulic brakes. I've had great success with that brake setup, and we religiously maintain our equipment. Don't really want to get in to the air brake debate - In a perfect world I'd have a truck and trailer with air brakes.

Any other input that might be useful?

 

[Wes J]

I'm guessing your truck weighs at least 12,000. So gross we're talking 40,000lbs. I suppose that is doable, but I'd sure want air brakes personally.

 

[NepeanGC]

Yeah, truck weighs 13,000 lbs full of fuel with me in it. What should be of note is I'm not looking to tow both machines behind it every day. Most of our jobs involve 2 machines and 2 operators, so we can take 2 trucks & trailers. But there is the occasional small job where I go by myself and need both machines. I'd say maybe 20% of the time.

 

[walkerv]

My 02 gmc with cat 3126 at 210hp and an eaton 6 speed is a turd my service truck weighs about 24,500 lbs seems like most of the dt466e i worked on were around 250 hp and closer to 800ftlbs that rating always seemed to run decent to me .

 

[NepeanGC]

hmm, yeah, the hp and tq I have do make me wonder if it'll get it moving... You're right Walkerv - most DT466's make 210+hp. My truck was originally purchased by a municipality as a landscape truck, where hp and torque obviously wasn't a priority. The dealer and my mechanic confirmed it's only got 195hp and 530 tq. No easy way to turn it up without risking the transmission apparently.

 

[walkerv]

hmm, yeah, the hp and tq I have do make me wonder if it'll get it moving... You're right Walkerv - most DT466's make 210+hp. My truck was originally purchased by a municipality as a landscape truck, where hp and torque obviously wasn't a priority. The dealer and my mechanic confirmed it's only got 195hp and 530 tq. No easy way to turn it up without risking the transmission apparently.

Well if you could find the transmission and clutch specs you could have engine reprogrammed to what they can handle but i have a feeling your whole truck was spec'd out light

 

[Wes J]

I doubt 15 hp is going to make or break this operation.

 

[AzIron]

Its doable guys do it with less your looking at doing with a truck designed to hit that market that your in it's a way better option than a 450 or 550 you should have bigger brakes for one and that is a big help.

Your not looking at a hot rod a lot of guys have done the same with less

 

[NepeanGC]

I've managed to find a trailer I can borrow to see if this will work. Now I've just gotta wait for this snow to go away so we can get back to work!

 

[rondig]

2 15k is way better on pocket book...less tires but 3x 10 has better braking....when in terms of 60k gc....my f450 is legal to 40400 gc...

 

[NepeanGC]

Figured I might as well post what I ended up with.

I stumbled across a really good deal on a used triple 8k axle trailer - it was a bit lighter than I wanted, and not a deckover, but it'll do for a little while.

Not having had a ton of experience with a truck of this class, I've also come to realize that even though international claims the truck could gross 60k...45-50k is the practical safe limit.

 

[CM1995]

Nice looking rig Nepean!

You don't have a speed demon but it looks like you have a money maker and in the end that's all that matters.

 

[AzIron]

Rigs like that will keep you more money than you would think just stay steady

On the weight part of things if you had a trailer that could handle more weight and the brakes were set up you could safely see 55k but that would be air brakes not electric or juice

 

[jonno634]

Nice setup, looks like it should work well for you. years ago, we had a ford single axle gas (6 spd, 5 fwd and 1 rev, but that’s another story) farm truck with a hoist, hyd brakes. It pulled a homemade tilt deck 3 axle (mobile home tires.. 12 of them) with elec brakes and moved 10-30k with it, more often then we should have. We have hills here... but it did get the job done. The old saying, ‘slow and steady wins the race’... I was very happy when we upgraded to a actual tandem with a 15spd.

 

[NepeanGC]

Still working very well. It's still a novelty to be able to just bring 2 machines along whenever I feel like it. This truck is an excellent teacher of patience...Definitely can't be in a rush, but it gets it done. The trailer brakes suck too. As soon as winter comes I'll be swapping those out for an electric over hydraulic disk setup.

 

[DMiller]

I put a class IV hitch on the truck in my avatar, will be no way I will put that much weight on a pintle behind it with Hydraulic Brakes even with electric controller in cab, I am aware their limitations and how difficult for the heat to be dispersed.
Would also prefer Air Brakes to do where you are headed with this.

 

[redneckracin]

I have a dt530e in a 4700 international making 275hp and I sure wouldn't want any less hp. We have some sneaky hills in pa that are either difficult to get a run for or have a corner in them that you have to slow down for, or a nice long grade. I do have a 6sp allison behind it that has too much top speed so I have toyed with the idea of dropping the rear end ratio from 3.73 to something around 4.44.

 

[DMiller]

I have a dt530e in a 4700 international making 275hp and I sure wouldn't want any less hp. We have some sneaky hills in pa that are either difficult to get a run for or have a corner in them that you have to slow down for, or a nice long grade. I do have a 6sp allison behind it that has too much top speed so I have toyed with the idea of dropping the rear end ratio from 3.73 to something around 4.44.

Why not find a two Speed Diff and slip that in it. Ratios are varied but certainly could come up with something. Just use lo side when need off the road or really heavy.

 

[redneckracin]

Honestly, Id prefer a locker over a 2 speed. Truck will easily drive faster than I want to drive it and I rarely get on the interstate now. When I bought it 6th gear was locked out. That's partially what started me thinking about the swap not to mention a center section is only about 600 bucks online and I am pretty sure I can do the swap by myself. Any thoughts on a 2 speed behind an automatic?

 

[Birken Vogt]

2 speeds behind automatics used to be a thing but have not seen one in many many years. I don't know what tires you have but 3.73 sounds very tall. If the drive shaft can handle the RPM, unlock 6th gear and the lower the better for the rear ratio except if it cuts into top speed.