opinions of fiat allis 16b

[Grantc]

Got my 16b in the shop today. What all is involved in changing the undercaraige out to cat, ecsecially in the sprocket change over .my rails are done, and I don't think I can find any. Anyone else know where some rails and sprockets are.

 

[td25c]

On the rear sprockets I would look in to a weld on repair ring for Cat D7G . Similar to this only drilled for segments like your 16B .
http://www.hendersonmfgco.com/parts/parts_weld_on_sprocket_rims.htm

We put D7G bottom rollers on our 16B up thread .
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/opinions-of-fiat-allis-16b.22947/#post-413265

Nice looking 16B Grantc !

 

[Grantc]

I got a track taken off, and the thing has tons of play .I am slightly worried that someone has possibly taken a link out of the track . Which would be bad, if I had to find another link per side .

Is there any way you can tell me how many pins are in your track on yours td25c .

 

[DIYDAVE]

I know the AC machine with 7 rollers had 41 links. Don't know if Fiat stayed with the original AC 16B design, though...

 

[td25c]

That sounds correct DIYDAVE . Will double check tomorrow .

If the sprockets are sharp I'd guess it's had a link removed with the given condition of the track .

On a good note Grantc's 16 looks pretty strait like it's been taken care of .

Problem …… Rail's / bushings are more than likely shot .

If I was going to keep the tractor would convert the undercarriage to Cat D7G .
I know the bottom rollers will fit with a little work .

 

[td25c]

On a good note Grantc's 16 looks pretty strait like it's been taken care of .

Replacing / rebuilding the end bit's ?
Cutting edge looks pretty good yet .

Moldboard looks in good shape as well . No plate welded in the center , could be a low hour machine ?

 

[Grantc]

The end bits had to come off to get it through the door into my shop, made it by 1/2" per side. Lol

The sprockets are shot completely .the pins and bushings were laughable.

But good news is that I counted 41 pins a side on mine. That would be some good news .

I ran this tractor for very limited time (maybe like 20 hours) mostly ripper time. Cause the rippers planted the rear end and kept the tracks from slipping g mostly.

The dozer runs exceptionally well, but I'd on wanna throw a ton of money at it in new parts, as I don't know what to expect the drives, motor and tranny to do long term.

I have the tooling to do most of the machining myself, and am going to do it on the cheap and see if it runs out, then if it holds up, I will concert most likey.

I am planning on machining the sprockest to accept a bushings that is heat treated and cut in half to fill machined spot and weld edges and am going to make new pins and bushings, and I am thinking about machining the bottom rollers and putting a 2 piece shell around then heat treated as well for now to see if this girl has some life left I it.

I am only into this thing for 6k right now, so I guess I'll see if it is gonna warrant the money, I have a buddy that heat treats, and the machining is on me, so it won't be really any cost but the steel .

Any advice on steel for pins and bushings? Haven't done any homework yet on it.

 

[Theweldor]

If you have the means to machine it. I would go with 4140 Prehard.

 

[Grantc]

More pics

 

[Grantc]

If you have the means to machine it. I would go with 4140 Prehard.

If it's prehard, that gonna be hard to machine?

 

[Grantc]

Replacing / rebuilding the end bit's ?
Cutting edge looks pretty good yet .

Moldboard looks in good shape as well . No plate welded in the center , could be a low hour machine ?

View attachment 190766

The hour meter says little over 5k, for what thats worth.
I have quite a bit of equipment, and judging by the wear in the lift cylinder bushings, and other areas, it looks like this was possibly the original under carriage i think. The bushings have been turned over already. Its does have part of the sub structue cut out on the passenger side under the lift cylinder, looks like they were trying to get something on the front of the motor im guessing, for easier access. You can see the weld line in the pic with the chain taken apart above

 

[Theweldor]

It machines well with good carbide tooling. Of you can figure out the dimensions you may be able to buy it to size. If you order it TPG { turned ground and polished} all you would have to do is cut it to length and put s slight chamfer on it.

 

[Grantc]

from what i gather the pins are 1.875 and the bushings are 2.875, so its possible i could get that maybe. wouldnt be a big deal to cut ant then harden, i just dont know if it will change in size after heat treat, would wanna try a couple and verify, before i go for all of them.

 

[d9gdon]

You might want to build up the roller shells with weld and turn to specs if you're able to do the machining on the other parts. Some people submerge them while being welded to reduce heat. I have seen elaborate setups that turn the submerged shells as they're welded.

 

[Grantc]

Well got the tracks off today, and opened the drives up, and suprise . Drivers side pinion has some very bad damage. 3 teeth have bad damage. Can't believe I didn't hear it. I have had damage before in other equipment, buy have allways heard/felt it.

Now I have to try and find a pinion, or I guess have to try and repair this one. It keeps getting deeper. Ugh

 

[Grantc]

That sounds correct DIYDAVE . Will double check tomorrow .

If the sprockets are sharp I'd guess it's had a link removed with the given condition of the track .

On a good note Grantc's 16 looks pretty strait like it's been taken care of .

Problem …… Rail's / bushings are more than likely shot .

If I was going to keep the tractor would convert the undercarriage to Cat D7G .
I know the bottom rollers will fit with a little work .

Have you been into the finals on your 16b. The pinion in one of my drives is pretty tore up. To get it out, i don't know if you can sneak it out from outside, without going in from the trans side .by looking at the parts manuals, it looks like it could be possible, because of the tapered splines on the trans side.

 

[Welder Dave]

At least you got it in your shop.

 

[td25c]

Have you been into the finals on your 16b. The pinion in one of my drives is pretty tore up. To get it out, i don't know if you can sneak it out from outside, without going in from the trans side .by looking at the parts manuals, it looks like it could be possible, because of the tapered splines on the trans side.

Yes , been in both sides . Had a similar experience as you .

I did notice a slight noise when tracking in reverse fast .
My issue turned out to be the intermediate pinion shaft inner bearing was going out .
It sets in a cavity behind the gear .


Best to pull the final on the 16-B completely down & check all the bearings . That's more then likely what caused the gear failure .

You will have to pull the steering clutch assembly & pull the brake drum hub to get the top pinion out .

 

[td25c]

HD 16-B gear & bearing pullers .



Ever heard of " Junior's Parts " ? Looks like they keep some Allis / Fiat - Allis parts .

https://www.juniorsparts.com/AC_88.aspx

They got my intermediate pinion shaft .
https://www.juniorsparts.com/store.aspx?panel=3&productid=70651903&categoryid=88

 

[Queenslander]

The large live axle, you can slide out and then roll the bull gear out the opening at the rear, the intermediate gear is straightforward, but the small pinion gear/shaft has to be first separated from the steering clutch hub on the inside.


Td answered your question as I was typing, comprehensively as usual.