-
Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
Runaway Train
- Thread starter Tones
- Start date
Bumpsteer
Senior Member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2009
- Messages
- 1,340
- Location
- Front seat on the Struggle Bus
- Occupation
- Mechanical designer
Holy chit!
Ed
Ed
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
Moved more earth in that one event than some of us will move in our careers.
Ronsii
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2011
- Messages
- 3,464
- Location
- Western Washington
- Occupation
- s/e Heavy equipment operator
Just goes to show ya' , one person can make a difference..... in the bottom line of a company 
Queenslander
Senior Member
If they're able to derail it from 1500 km away, it shouldn't be too hard to drive the darn thing from the same place.
Ronsii
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2011
- Messages
- 3,464
- Location
- Western Washington
- Occupation
- s/e Heavy equipment operator
I think the 'derail' was just switch to a siding track, but yes you would think they'd know how to run it properly...
How could this happen? One of my customers drives a train for another WA iron ore company and he has to hit a dead man switch every minute or so or the train stops.
As well as millions of $$ lost someone is going to be feeling mighty embarrassed about how this can happen.
Look forward to more info.
Ausdave
As well as millions of $$ lost someone is going to be feeling mighty embarrassed about how this can happen.
Look forward to more info.
Ausdave
I think these boys may know something about it..........
DMiller
Senior Member
In the US there are auto stop features where if not actively working controls you have to apply a warning button to prove awake or alive or attentive if not the train just stops goes to Emergency braking and shuts it down.
John C.
Senior Member
If you are talking auto train control, then not so much. We had a passenger train go off the rails last year and the first question by the investigators was did the line of auto train control. The people at Amtrak have been saying it's way to expensive and have delayed implementation for years.
DMiller
Senior Member
Not auto train, just dead man switch.
Wasn't that derailment a 'test run' of the newly installed auto train control system?
78mph in 30mph zone. "The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) investigators also said that had an automatic-braking system been operational, it would have applied the brakes to slow and stop the train".
RZucker
Senior Member
This is why an engineer should always stay in the cab of the locomotive. This reduced crew idea is flat dangerous. They don't really tell us much about whether the brakes bled off, or the engines were left with the power on and overcame the brakes. I'm leaning toward the brakes bleeding off. When they are applied, no air is being sent to the train. Train brakes work like the old semitrailers without maxi cans and only use the tank charging line. After you make a brake set it either has to be recharged to release the brakes or eventually it leaks off and releases them on their own.
I ran trains for a local shortline for 2 years. we had one 2 percent grade that was a mile long that made you pucker up every time you went down. you made sure everything was pumped up good before you headed down, retainers were set to hold a brake setting, and DO NOT over use your air. Otherwise stop NOW and set handbrakes and pump it up all over again. Luckily our locomotive had 24 cast iron brake shoes that could keep you out of real trouble. Those brakes were independent of the train line and had full tank pressure available at all times.
I ran trains for a local shortline for 2 years. we had one 2 percent grade that was a mile long that made you pucker up every time you went down. you made sure everything was pumped up good before you headed down, retainers were set to hold a brake setting, and DO NOT over use your air. Otherwise stop NOW and set handbrakes and pump it up all over again. Luckily our locomotive had 24 cast iron brake shoes that could keep you out of real trouble. Those brakes were independent of the train line and had full tank pressure available at all times.
John C.
Senior Member
The Amtrak derailment was the first commercial run, the engineer was fully rested but he wasn't real experience on the line. He blew through the speed limit sign and basically didn't realize where he was at . There was no auto braking control on the train and the line was brand new. Wasn't a dead man in the train, I guess he was mentally dead, and it still wrecked. Automatic systems might have prevented the wreck but all intents and purposes, it didn't exist in both cases.
Welder Dave
Senior Member
I don't know anything about trains except when the big accident in Lac Magantic happened they said the train was left running to keep the brakes on and they work the opposite of a semi where brakes need air to release. There was sparks and fire coming from the engine (exhaust) so fire crews (I think) shut the locomotive off. Another big contributing factor was that the hand brakes on the cars weren't properly applied. Apparently it's common to leave them running when parked while the crew is away from the train, even overnight. Maybe they did just bleed off from lack of maintainence?
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
They used to commonly leave them running because they may never start again outside of a shop. It is no matter whether you leave the locomotive running or not though. The brakes on the cars are air apply only, and just like an old trailer, you can't trust them more than a few minutes to a few hours before the air will leak away. There is also no separate red and blue like on a truck. Only one pipe for the whole train. So when stopped for any length of time you must walk and set hand brakes every so many cars.
Now theoretically if the locos can pull the train then their brakes should hold it also which you could do by leaving them running to keep air on the locos but I don't think that is allowed under any rule book.
Now theoretically if the locos can pull the train then their brakes should hold it also which you could do by leaving them running to keep air on the locos but I don't think that is allowed under any rule book.
Preliminary Report
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/RRD18MR001-prelim.aspx
Engineer hit the brakes 6 seconds before derailment and didn't use emergency brakes, per in cab video > oh f-moment!
Welder Dave
Senior Member
If I recall they said they leave them running to keep the brakes on and the hand brakes weren't properly maintained and not enough of them applied to hold the train back.
DMiller
Senior Member
Trains do not have spring cans, they use air to keep the brakes on or mechanical linkage thru the individual cars handwheels to set a alternate holding brake. They lose air supply they will roll off unless the 'Hand Brake' is applied. There is a air line from the engine to the cars, they charge the line to feed air down the train then release that air to a minimum pressure for operating. Seems they have a 'Self Lap' application pressure to keep just a little drag on and facilitate braking.
Birken Vogt
Charter Member
It is a little different than that even.
The train has one pipe, the whole length. No separate supply/apply lines.
If you increase air pressure to the cars, by any amount, they all release completely dumping their own air reservoirs into the line to help it release faster. You then continue to supply air to the line/reservoirs and pump them all back up to full pressure, say 80 psi, whatever the company policy is.
Now when you want to make an application you release air from the train line and the magic valves give you 2.5x the reduction amount in the brake cylinders. So you drop air 10 psi so the train line and get 25 psi to the brakes.
But the one and only way to set air brakes on the cars is via a reduction on the line. You can't continue to supply air to them for parking even if the loco is running since any supply of air would cause a full release. So once they leak away, they begin to roll free again. There is nothing like a johnny bar to the cars on the train.
The train has one pipe, the whole length. No separate supply/apply lines.
If you increase air pressure to the cars, by any amount, they all release completely dumping their own air reservoirs into the line to help it release faster. You then continue to supply air to the line/reservoirs and pump them all back up to full pressure, say 80 psi, whatever the company policy is.
Now when you want to make an application you release air from the train line and the magic valves give you 2.5x the reduction amount in the brake cylinders. So you drop air 10 psi so the train line and get 25 psi to the brakes.
But the one and only way to set air brakes on the cars is via a reduction on the line. You can't continue to supply air to them for parking even if the loco is running since any supply of air would cause a full release. So once they leak away, they begin to roll free again. There is nothing like a johnny bar to the cars on the train.