Resurrection of a Cat

[Vetech63]

and...…….by the way, Im curious. Have you even tried to find any of the parts for this project outside of your CAT dealer? There is usually numerous used parts available if you search for them. Could save some BIG money on some of this stuff!

 

[thepumpguysc]

Fellas..fellas.. I know we're proactive of "our site" BUT.. COME ON.. back-off a smidge..
He already conceded.. I think "we" should let it go..
Hell, I'm as arrogant as they come..& cant remember getting blasted this hard.??
Its his money, his time & his experiment.. he's just or WAS just, documenting his project..
I haven't seen 1 question from him.. just pictures & progress..
Now if he came on here w/ a pic like his 1st post & asked "what do I do now"?? it woulda been a different story..
This guy isn't even in the same universe a SteveA.. lol

 

[kshansen]

Sometimes, toxic behavior weeds itself out...

Not really sure if I should make any comments here any more, seems I inadvertently tossed a can of diesel fuel on a fire by not carefully wording my comment about approaching a project as big as this without all the easily available technical information in hand.

I'm going way off topic here but as the OP says "Include me Out." I'll take him at his word!


I have nothing against someone using gut instincts or basic knowledge of how things work to take something that does not work and turn it into a working piece of machinery.

A minor example if is that old Mack over the the left. One day the big boss got the idea to "restore" it to running condition after it had sat in a hedge row rusting for over 50 years. Now as you can imagine Mack does not have online parts and service manuals available for download for 1918 BullDog Macks and to add to the fun sometime in the last 50+ years someone decided they "needed" the magneto off this engine.

I won't even go into the problems of rusted out water pump and intake and exhaust valves and valve seats here!

But we did have the good luck of a boss who saw opportunities in junk and he just happened to be wandering around at an auction for an old gravel bed that was being sold and noticed on a shelf in the back corner of the shop some old magnetos buried in a pile of dust. Being the "honest" guy he was he tossed them out the nearest window into the dirt out back and latter after the auction was over and everyone was gone he picked them up and put them in his truck.

One of the mags was for a six cylinder engine so that was not going to cut it for the four cylinder Mack engine! A couple others had various functional problems. However one was for a four cylinder engine and the impulse drive coupler seemed to work. I thought for a moment we were golden but then I noticed that the rotation of the mag drive on the engine would be turning the magneto the wrong way to have the impulse couplor work as it had to. Dang it so close!

Did not have access to a Splitdorf manual, wouldn't you think they would have them online for download? So I spent some time looking at this wrong way magneto and noticed that there was more than one way to assemble the coupler and by re-positioning things here and there it was possible to take, say a clockwise rotation magneto and convert it to a counter-clockwise magneto. So now we had ignition so to speak! Problem was the mag did not appear to have a way to couple it to the drive. Dang it where is that parts book?

See the magneto had what I would call a tongue on it's impulse coupler but there was no groove to mate it with on the drive on the engine, just another tongue. Well that was not going to work! One good thing is both the mag and the engine side drive were exactly the same height when the mag was bolted down to the mounting pad on front of engine, bolt holes even lined up perfect but there was about a two inch gap between the two.

I needed some way to couple the two together and this is were I went way off originality on the project. I came up with the idea that if I just had something the correct length and diameter of the two parts and machined a slot in one end at a 90º angle to the slot at the other it would hold itself in place and the fact that there was a nut holding each coupler half on it's shaft a hole bored in for the clearance for the nuts would also help to keep the "adapter" in place. What to use??? Well one problem is we did not have any metal machining tools other than an old lathe so working with steel or other metal would be a bit of a trick.

I came up with the idea of using something I could work with at home with my wood working tools. I did a bit of looking and found I could buy a foot long chunk of three inch nylon bar stock pretty cheap and that would be easy to cut with wood working tools. Plus the foot long chuck would give me extra material if the first attempt did not work out. As nylon was invented about 20 years after this truck left the factory I don't think it was part of the original design!

Using a radial arm saw and more or less free handing the cutting of the slots and a little boring for clearance for the nuts and we had a coupler! I often wonder what someone will think when they see that nylon coupler in a 1918 truck engine, some probably will not have a clue as to how unoriginal it really is. I guess if I had bought a chunk of black nylon it would not stick out so much as that bright white nylon does!

Below is a picture I took the last time I saw the truck back in 2000, not sure where it is these days, probably covered with dust in the back corner of a storage shed at the quarry where it went when it left our shop. The Name "Big Bernie" is in honor of the big boss who's idea it was to restore the truck. He was one of those high up bosses in a major company you could talk to like he was one of the guys shoveling under the conveyors out in the plant. Way too few of that kind around these days! Miss you Bernie!

 

[Kiwi-truckwit]

It's a shame the thread went this way, I was looking forward to following the build.
Quantum, if you're still following, Just keep in mind that there is a wealth of knowledge here, and I doubt anyone was being nasty, but offering some of their experience in order to make your life easier. I do hope you'll reconsider, as I and no doubt many others are interested.
Also, I'll add my name to the list of those concerned about the cribbing. Nailed together or not, it's still high and narrow, and won't take much lateral force for the whole thing to come crashing down. I've seen it before. Again, I say that not as an attack, but out of concern for your well-being.

 

[Fog]

Well, just when something interesting came around the know-it-alls had to ruin it for the rest of us.
Darn, guess I'll do a quick search to see if he's posting about the project somewhere else where they have some manners.

 

[Kiwi-truckwit]

Well, just when something interesting came around the know-it-alls had to ruin it for the rest of us.
Darn, guess I'll do a quick search to see if he's posting about the project somewhere else where they have some manners.

I don't think that's fair. The problem with text based forums is that there's no context for any posts. So how they are interpreted by individuals can often be very different to the manner in which they were intended .
Also keep in mind that this site isn't just populated by enthusiastic amateurs, but also professionals with the benefit of many years of experience and/or manufacturer specific training, who know these machines intimately, and who know the pitfalls that go with them. To dismiss their advice is, IMO, foolish.
With that said, there are often many ways to rebuild a Cat, and sometimes figuring out a way is half the fun. If egos are checked, than a good time can be had by all.

 

[Fog]

Don't see how it can be explained any other way.

Not doubting what people know, just finding fault with the way they treated the OP and his project.

The thing about people that truly have a lot to offer is they know when it is wanted and when it isn't. Most people think they have a lot to offer but in reality they're just in awe of themselves.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I just re-read it and my opinion is that the "ahem" more "seasoned" members were just giving him a little ribbing and very delicately suggested that it might not be a very economical project and he took it a little too personal.

He did ask a question about the drive coupling which kind of opens the door for other suggestions. This is not a courtroom with strict question and answer rules.

 

[Nige]

The thing about people that truly have a lot to offer is they know when it is wanted and when it isn't. Most people think they have a lot to offer but in reality they're just in awe of themselves.

Just like the OP then ......... based on what he told about his day job he's used to being the smartest person in the room and couldn't take constructive suggestion from people that he looks down upon because of his perception of their lack of formal qualifications and/or education.

If you're still not convinced then I suggest that you check out his other threads. In every one he starts from a pre-conceived viewpoint and attempts to shoot down anyone who has the temerity to disagreee with his opinion.

 

[Queenslander]

Not really sure if I should make any comments here any more,

Now don’t go doing anything silly Ken.
We’ve lost far too many fine posters because of blowups like this, we can’t afford to lose another.

 

[kshansen]

Now don’t go doing anything silly Ken.
We’ve lost far too many fine posters because of blowups like this, we can’t afford to lose another.

Heck I'm not even sure what got me started on that story about the old Mack!

Looking back at this thread I guess I was mistaken in thinking the OP had come here, at least in part, looking for advice or guidance. Instead of just a place to post a story about how great a mechanic he was to be able to salvage this machine no one else was able to fix. Maybe if he had made it clear that no suggestions or comments other than "Great Job" were acceptable I would have not made the error of offering help that was not needed or wanted.

I'm on another forum about a particular model of a Japanese brand of motorcycle and there are a few guys there doing restorations of bikes that involve more money and time than could ever be considered cost effective from the stand point of getting a functional piece of transportation. So maybe that was the case here. The idea was to prove one could bring this machine back from the "Grave" and not just get a working machine to do a project for less money that one could buy a good used machine by going to a used equipment dealer and have it on the job by the end of the week.

 

[Vetech63]

Heck I'm not even sure what got me started on that story about the old Mack!

Looking back at this thread I guess I was mistaken in thinking the OP had come here, at least in part, looking for advice or guidance. Instead of just a place to post a story about how great a mechanic he was to be able to salvage this machine no one else was able to fix. Maybe if he had made it clear that no suggestions or comments other than "Great Job" were acceptable I would have not made the error of offering help that was not needed or wanted.

I'm on another forum about a particular model of a Japanese brand of motorcycle and there are a few guys there doing restorations of bikes that involve more money and time than could ever be considered cost effective from the stand point of getting a functional piece of transportation. So maybe that was the case here. The idea was to prove one could bring this machine back from the "Grave" and not just get a working machine to do a project for less money that one could buy a good used machine by going to a used equipment dealer and have it on the job by the end of the week.

X2 I thought he was seeking advise myself. I think the majority of people that come here are looking for exactly what you said...…….advise on how to repair a machine cheap and quick to get it back to work. Ide be interested in what the final costs of this project will be.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I was watching a show just LAST NITE about car restorations.. The guy brought in an old car that was complete.. He drove it in high school, went out in his 1st date, went on his honeymoon in the same car to the same woman he had the date with.. & wanted the car resurrected to drive on their 50th wedding anniversary.. The builder asked what kinda "budget" he had.. The fella said, 80 thousand dollars.!!!
The builder laughed in his face on national television.!! & said your probably gonna need to TRIPLE THAT..
The fella said, OK, go ahead & build it.. & they did..

 

[Vetech63]

I was watching a show just LAST NITE about car restorations.. The guy brought in an old car that was complete.. He drove it in high school, went out in his 1st date, went on his honeymoon in the same car to the same woman he had the date with.. & wanted the car resurrected to drive on their 50th wedding anniversary.. The builder asked what kinda "budget" he had.. The fella said, 80 thousand dollars.!!!
The builder laughed in his face on national television.!! & said your probably gonna need to TRIPLE THAT..
The fella said, OK, go ahead & build it.. & they did..

Its funny you bring this up because my wife has one of cars. A 67 ford mustang fastback that she has had since she was 21. It was rusted out sitting in her brothers driveway for years and she wanted it restored. Im in it for 80K and it still isn't finished, and it will be somewhere over 100K before its done. I couldn't sell that finished car for half of that so its definitely not an investment. Guess its love?!

 

[thepumpguysc]

The thing about those "Stangs" are, there are SO MANY re-pop parts available.!!! Complete floor pans, trunk pans, roofs, hoods, rockers, wiring harness..on & on.. You can actually build a car out of a catalogue..
A 67 fastback..NICE.!!!

 

[farmerlund]

I would really like to see this project continue to be posted. I think it is interesting what people can do with a "junked" piece of equipment. I have fixed up a few basket cases over the years, and always came out ahead in the end. Good luck with the project anyways.

Steve

 

[Fog]

Just like the OP then ......... based on what he told about his day job he's used to being the smartest person in the room and couldn't take constructive suggestion from people that he looks down upon because of his perception of their lack of formal qualifications and/or education.

If you're still not convinced then I suggest that you check out his other threads. In every one he starts from a pre-conceived viewpoint and attempts to shoot down anyone who has the temerity to disagreee with his opinion.

So are you big enough to take some constructive criticism when I tell you that you were part of the problem with this project and this thread?

I mean really, contacting the mods because someone didn't want advice, how sensitive can you be? You really think you and the others picking on him are worth that much?

 

[digger242j]

Ok, enough.

Nobody has contacted us about this thread. The OP was the first to comment that the mods should have stepped in.

From the Forum Rules:

No profanity or vulgar language will be permitted. Some words have been automatically censored by the message board program, any attempt to fool the censor program by misspelling or otherwise disguising words which have been censored will be considered an attempt to post the original censored word. Please use the same polite language you would in speaking with a customer.

And:

Personal attacks of any kind on other members will not be tolerated. While disagreements in opinions and procedures may arise, they must be handled in a mature manner.

The OP, in my humble opinion, was the one who crossed the line. Certainly, any judgements of this sort are subjective, but clearly, "Anyone else notice that these three pricks still managed to find fault,..." would have been worthy of at least a temporary suspension of privileges had he not opted to leave of his own accord.

Reference unsolicited advice:

I thought the cribbing looked a little dodgy myself, and I usually think "if I don't say something, and he has that thing land on him, I won't sleep, so I'm just going to point it out." I don't think they're trying to say your a idiot, they're just trying to sleep well knowing they've said something.

I've thought the same thing on some occasions, and done the same thing.

I'll suggest that the discussion further upthread about the monetary aspects of the project reflects similar thinking. People who care can feel obligated to offer their wisdom with respect to whether somebody is risking their money in the same way they can feel obligated to offer their wisdom when somebody is apparently risking life and limb. I think the track record of the guys in question speaks for itself both in terms of wisdom and caring. I have the greatest respect for them.

This certainly had the potential to be an interesting thread. It saddens me that the OP didn't have the great experience here at HEF that we hope to provide for everybody, and do for most.

(Edited to clarify the subject of unsolicited advice.)