freeloaders working the unemployment scam

[Randy88]

How do others business owners handle these people?

Now don't get me wrong, there is always a certain amount of people honestly looking for work and are wanting a job, those I'm not talking about and have no issue with.

Its those that have sucked off the unemployment scam their entire lives and know how the system works and work it their benefit and have for decades. They won't ask for work where any business has signs posted for help wanted, will always ask for work where they know won't hire them, have a part time job just long enough to still qualify for unemployment, or have a job every year at the same place, [seasonal work] and don't want a job the rest of the year.

I've been told its just part of business and to not worry about it, of course those telling me this have never had to deal with them, had their time taken up by these types.

I've also been told to just let them use my business name and keep the peace, that way they might no as likely to steal from me or vandalize anything if I've not upset them?? Well I never started a business to enable bums to not work, how do other business owners deal with these types?

 

[Planedriver]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking what to do about your past employees who are working the system or are you asking for opinions in general?

 

[Delmer]

I think he's complaining about the people wasting his time "applying" for work, knowing there's no way Randy is going to hire them, in order to fill their quota for job searching.

Is the dilemma that you want to accept serious applications, but not waste your time with people who don't want a job? or even letting them use your info to work the system? Can't you just say you're not accepting applications at this time?

 

[Randy88]

No they are not former employee's, I've never applied for unemployment myself so all I know is what I've been told, but my understanding is, those getting unemployment and welfare have to apply for three jobs a week after so many weeks on unemployment to remain getting their unemployment and or welfare to prove they are looking for a job, so to speak.

Anyone earnestly looking will apply for a job at places that are actively hiring, or where they'd like to work in case in the near future the business might be hiring so their application is on file. The one's that tick me off are those that have no intentions of working and only stop by to ask if I'm hiring so they have my business name so they can keep getting unemployment/welfare. Most are local and everyone knows who they are, so about four times a year, usually when we are busiest they stop by to ask if I'm hiring, if I say yes, they immediately turn around and leave and don't say a word, but then word gets out I'm hiring and dozens show up to apply who are earnestly looking, even though I'm not hiring, if I say no, then every bum shows up within a week to ask and be told no we are not hiring.

We've hung up sign's to say we are not hiring, then they ask in public and claim we didn't visit our office so they didn't know we were not hiring and they have dozens of ways to ask to be told no we are not hiring.

This didn't use to bother me, but at four or more times a year telling the same idiot no, over nearly 30 years, it gets on your nerves after a while, multiply that by a couple dozen doing it and its boarder line harassment in my opinion, not to mention other than a few seasonal jobs, they've basically never worked and seem to have a lot of time go ask for a job at places that will never hire them. The last one that stopped, twice so far this year by him alone, I told him the local fast food restaurant was hiring and go apply there, he said and I quote," I can make more on unemployment and welfare than they pay" and I ordered him off my property and told him to never come back.................he'll be back, I've told him that many times before.

My question is, how do other business's handle these deadbeats wasting your time and how do you stop them from basically harassing you for a job they will never get nor want in the first place?

 

[Randy88]

Delmer, you posted as I was typing, yes you are right about the question, but to say you are not accepting applications at this time is the same as saying no we are not hiring, so thus either way they use my business to milk the system or so I've been told and seems to be the case, because the same dozen will show up to be told the same thing within weeks.

 

[Planedriver]

As far as I know there is no requirement to accept applications. The only requirement I know of is not to discriminate.

 

[lantraxco]

There's a large chain store out here has two different applications for employment, the real one and a 3x5 note card for name, address, phone number so they can verify application if Unenjoyment calls, saves them the hassle of processing the deadbeats. YMMV One thing to keep in mind is some of these folks really are looking for work but there's usually a limited number of places to apply that fit their applicable skills under the unemployment rules, so they have to work at finding new places to apply, you can't just use the same ones over and over, at least not here in Oregon.

 

[Planedriver]

If I were that business I wouldn't want anyone to know about the 3x5 cards. I'm pretty sure a complicity to defraud action could be perfected.

 

[lantraxco]

If I were that business I wouldn't want anyone to know about the 3x5 cards. I'm pretty sure a complicity to defraud action could be perfected.

I seriously doubt that, having different applications is not unusual, some places accept resumes in lieu of applications, etc. Have a document with contact details I am sure would meet the letter of the law as accepting an application.

 

[Randy88]

I contacted the local unemployment office and asked some questions a while back, and to also register a complaint since I don't advertise I'm hiring and have a sign up of not hiring as to what I could do to deter these deadbeats. and was told in order to file a complaint against any of them, I first needed their social security number, I asked the person there if they thought any deadbeat would readily give me their social security number so I could file a complaint against them?? Got quiet and then they went onto to say just tell the unemployment office when they contacted me about these people who are using my name for their unemployment when I'm contacted if these people did indeed apply for work with my business, so I told them I've never heard from any unemployment office in all the years of being in business.................................. It took a few minutes of silence and then they stated, well, then, it seems the unemployment office official who's in charge of these clients isn't doing their job and I could file a complaint against them if I liked and was assured if I didn't have a sign out stating I was hiring, I shouldn't be bothered with anyone asking me for a job...................................... I asked when this rule came out and was told, its always been there and I should have told the person who contacts me within the unemployment office about this years ago....................I asked you mean the one who's never called but oversees all the applications where their clients have used my business for their unemployment..........................................I was then told this wasn't possible and since I've never been called it must mean nobody has used my business for any unemployment..................so I asked, why do they keep asking for a job then even after I've told them off more times than I can count and keep track of.

It took being handed off to two more people before I was told it was my fault for not contacting them sooner on this issue, someone will contact me within a few days to follow up on this complaint of mine. Still waiting for that call.

So I asked just how many are using my business for their unemployment..........................was told that was confidential and couldn't be told, I asked if it could be looked up and was told if I had these peoples social security number and I needed to have these people fill out a form to release THEIR information I could be told. I then asked if anyone who's not contacted me might be using my information for unemployment and was told, get this, I should have asked them when they didn't contact me if MY information was going to be used for unemployment purposes?

I'm beginning to learn, much too late in life, the blind really do lead the blind and these people are classic examples of government intelligence at its finest.

 

[alrman]

@Randy88 You need some summer weather so you can get back to real work & stop thinking about this.....

 

[crane operator]

Randy's problem right now is Iowa feb. weather. Either there's frost in the ground, so he can't dig. Or the frost has just gone out from a warm spell, so its too muddy, and he can't dig.

He's probably had enough snow and cold already, so he's kind of sick of that, and if it has been cold and frozen for a while, he's spent all the $ he made last fall, fixing / maintaining his equipment in his shop. The only stuff he's got left to work on, are the one's too complicated, he's afraid he won't have done by the time he can dig, or the really expensive repairs, that he doesn't want to spend that much money on until he can go dig.

To top it all off, if he's in the shop, about the time he gets working, some deadbeat/ meth addict shows up beating on the door, and he's got to take the time to shoo him off.

Almost makes you wish you lived in Minnesota, so you could just go ice fishing.

Hang in there Randy, spring is coming!

I too suffer from people calling- most are laid off in the winter, don't want a job, just want to take a couple months off and have unemployment pay their bills.

 

[Randy88]

You guys are about spot on, spring can't come soon enough, but warm weather won't stop some of these deadbeats, it seems most only work a few months every decade or so, some it seems work even less than that.

But seriously, does anyone know how to stop these people legally from bothering me, spring won't help, they'll just stop by the jobsite, claiming to be looking for the landowner and then ask for a job while they are there, then I can't tell them off, its not my property and I have no idea if they indeed know the landowner or not.

 

[old-iron-habit]

I often wonder where those deadbeats could have worked long enough to get unemployment in the first place.

 

[Planedriver]

Watched them here in Michigan for years. The usual M.O. is: lawn services, dairy farms, orchards, canneries, pizza delivery and my all time favorite...... Goodwill.

Then there is the lawsuit against Michigan unemployment for falsely accusing recipients of fraud. Well some of them anyway. Oh yeah, the suit settled on record time. Take a look at the article below.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc.../michigan-unemployment-fraud-claims/97393916/

 

[kshansen]

I often wonder where those deadbeats could have worked long enough to get unemployment in the first place.

Well I guess I need to say I'm one of those "dead beats" !

The quarry I worked at in the shop for many years us mechanics were kept on year round. Then new management came in and decided to downsize the shop to eventually one mechanic and made that a 9 or 10 month position at the same time. So I guess I was guilty of "scamming" the system too! So if the consensus is that I am a bad person I will unsubscribe from this forum so as to not upset too many people.

And yes the vast majority of the people who work at this quarry are what could be considered "seasonal". It is not easy to try to run a stone quarry in the winter in this part of the country so production is limited to 8 to 9 months of the year. So from what I'm hearing here is everyone should be fired at the first hard freeze and cut loose with no benifits or unemployment checks. Then next spring at first warm day company should put up a sign saying "Help Wanted" and hope they can find enough people to run the plant and spend hundreds of hours training these new employees who know they will kicked to the curb with no support when weather turns cold again in October.

So let me know how soon I should unsubscribe so as to not cause any more trouble on this forum.

 

[Junkyard]

I used to see what kshansen talks about when I lived up north. Seasonal work meant a couple months off. However, most of the guys and owners knew that come spring everybody would be back to work more or less in the same place. I think that's a different use of the system than Randy is talking about.

I share your sentiments Randy as far as the abuse of the system. Seems like it's all rigged against the small business and for the lazy entitled scumbags. Just my .02 Unemployment has its place but it's not to live on indefinitely.

I don't think any offense was meant to a situation like yours kshansen. That was not of your doing or control.

Junkyard

 

[kshansen]

I used to see what kshansen talks about when I lived up north. Seasonal work meant a couple months off. However, most of the guys and owners knew that come spring everybody would be back to work more or less in the same place. I think that's a different use of the system than Randy is talking about.

I share your sentiments Randy as far as the abuse of the system. Seems like it's all rigged against the small business and for the lazy entitled scumbags. Just my .02 Unemployment has its place but it's not to live on indefinitely.
it
I don't think any offense was meant to a situation like yours kshansen. That was not of your doing or control.

Junkyard

But I still feel that I'm going to be lumped into the group of "scumbags". Just like anyone who gets any kind of government assistance is called a "Taker". It does not matter to some that the person "taking" today may have spent the last 30 to 40 years paying into the system but heaven forbid that due to something far out of their control they need to ask for help for a couple months now and then.

 

[Junkyard]

I certainly hope not! I certainly don't feel that way and I'd care to wager everybody here feels the same. It's all good!

 

[Randy88]

Kshansen, if you read my first post carefully, I don't have an issue with anyone who's earnestly looking for work or laid off of a job for a while in the winter or when work is slow, the one's I have issues with are those that literally work some weeks a year to a month a year or every few years and live on unemployment as a career and that's no joke, that's how they view it as a career, I asked and what some of them told me personally.

The worst abusers in my area have such a long list of jail and law offenses its not funny, when not in jail, or in the legal system awaiting jail time, they somehow find a job, only to be fired shortly and somehow get back on unemployment and can live off of it for years before finding themselves back in jail for the next offense.

The one that irritates me the most, is a local person, who's been charged with bank robbery, arson, destruction of private property, destruction of public property, drug charges and many drug related arrests, drunk driving arrests or I should say, was arrested but the charges were dropped, multiple times, driving on a revoked license many times, fraud charges that were later dropped and the very first time I ever met him he was stealing gas from my shop tank I told him off and tossed him out only to have him ask if I was hiring and if he could use my business name for his unemployment and that was 30 years ago and by asking for a job, ironically he's not doing anything illegal and I can't legally stop him from asking, I asked law enforcement. He has no talent, can't read or write English or any language, has no license that I know of, hasn't had a job other than a parking lot attendant in years, and that's only for a few weeks a year and somehow, he can apply for work or ask for work from me, knowing full well, I won't hire him nor could if I wanted it, my insurance nor anyone's would ever allow it, so he's safe by asking for work and since he can't find work, he's entitled to unemployment for almost the entire year with the exception of a few weeks a year and I was told that was supposed to be community service of some sort he gets paid for and has been doing it for decades.

Most of the rest in my area are about as bad, mostly drug related and legal offense's and is usually accompanied with multiple drunk driving charges and having no license and haven't had for years and nobody could hire them, in my area farmers can't even hire them or would hire them.

As far as I'm concerned these types should be required to do community service for 40 hours a week to get their unemployment and be supervised while doing something worthwhile, and not have to get their quota of business names to get their unemployment, they should have to check in every day five day's a week and do something, filling potholes in streets, shoveling sidewalks in the winter, mowing lawn in city or county property, walking road ditches to pick up garbage and a host of other things, by giving them a check, and not requiring them to work, for years at a time, they have too much idle time to get into more trouble and cause tax payers more money in the legal system.

Nobody with a talent and job for the bulk of year fits this category ever, and I never meant to refer to them as well, only those that are basically unhirable and a burden on society are the one's I have a gripe with.