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Case M Series
- Thread starter snowycuda
- Start date
melben
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,030
- Location
- Williamsport, Pa
- Occupation
- Retired 50 Yrs with Case dealership
Hey snowy, just got the info on the new series three mid week, lots of changes including major changes on the 590 pumps and hydraulic systems, new engines, new rear transaxle with outboard brakes electronic throttle, just a dial now, also the foot throttle is electronic but with normal feel, electronic engines of course in some models, swing out coolers for easy radiator clean, I could go on , but if you havn't already if you are close to whats going with Case you may have the same stuff I have. We will be seeing it soon, We are near to closing a deal on the first one.
cat320
Charter Member
be interesting to see the pics on some of the changes like the swing out radiator. more electronics is that a good thing or a bad thing ? :beatsme or will you be doing this when it breaks and you have to pay for repairing it :Banghead
melben
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,030
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- Williamsport, Pa
- Occupation
- Retired 50 Yrs with Case dealership
Cat, It will be interesting to see of course but the electronic throttle technology has been used in over the road trucks for years now The tier 3 government mandated emissions is what it is all about and everyone is or will be there soon. The engine of course is the Iveco Cummins Family of engine and is no stranger to us, just the tuning by laptop will need to be learned as the trucking industry has had to do. All progressive Case dealers are already useing laptops for the Hydrostat crawlers so the adaptation to engines will not be difficult, the Cummins software program comes with the service package as we purchased it. will keep you posted, we are excited about the new machine. The M series has been an excellent machine so far.
JS580SL
Senior Member
I havent come around to that new Cummins/Iveco motor yet. Starts terrible in the cold. I think it has more power but it doesnt respond as nice as the Cummins in L series.
melben
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,030
- Location
- Williamsport, Pa
- Occupation
- Retired 50 Yrs with Case dealership
The latest Ivecos start easily but have the grid heater , The earliest GH setups were set to activate at 29F, only problem was they wouldn't start below 35F. (oops) I updated all the units we sold to the new harness and relay setup which sets the GH activation temp to 45F. If there are any units out there that are not updated there is a kit to do as I described, units should have been updated under PUP, but would have to be done now at customer expense as the program has expired. The latest setup, common rail extreme high pressure injection electronic engine I suspect may not even need GH but I'm not sure of that. We will be seeing our first soon as we already have one sold at retail sight unseen.
cat320
Charter Member
since i have an older model I have block heater and either start . now what is the grid heater vs the block . I know that when I speced out an '07 I wanted what ever would make it start in the cold. are these good for real cold weather with out pluging them in?
Melben,
Yes Case is coming out with great new stuff soon. Basically the following models:
580M, Mechanical and pilot
580Sm, Mechanical and pilot
580SM+, Pilot only with a Variable volume axial piston pump
590sm, mechanical only
590sm+, pilot only with Variable volume axial piston pump
I have had an oportunity to operate some of the variable volume machines and they do work good, should get some better fuel economy with the variable volume. By no means am I an operator but I was impressed. The variable volume systems will also have a compensated loader valve that will all you to multi function.
What dealer do you work at?
Cat320,
The grid heater is a resistor that is placed in the intake. Basically when the key is turned on when it is cold out, the battery "shorts" accross the grid heater making it warm. When you go to crank the air is then drawn over the hot resistor and warmed before entering the combustion chanber.
Yes Case is coming out with great new stuff soon. Basically the following models:
580M, Mechanical and pilot
580Sm, Mechanical and pilot
580SM+, Pilot only with a Variable volume axial piston pump
590sm, mechanical only
590sm+, pilot only with Variable volume axial piston pump
I have had an oportunity to operate some of the variable volume machines and they do work good, should get some better fuel economy with the variable volume. By no means am I an operator but I was impressed. The variable volume systems will also have a compensated loader valve that will all you to multi function.
What dealer do you work at?
Cat320,
The grid heater is a resistor that is placed in the intake. Basically when the key is turned on when it is cold out, the battery "shorts" accross the grid heater making it warm. When you go to crank the air is then drawn over the hot resistor and warmed before entering the combustion chanber.
melben
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
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- 1,030
- Location
- Williamsport, Pa
- Occupation
- Retired 50 Yrs with Case dealership
snowy, I work at C.H. Waltz Sons, Inc in North Central Penna. We sold our first #3 early this AM to a township that is well placed and people watch what goes on there It has been sharing between Case and JD. It is a multiple unit township and this trade will make it a Case only twp. I will be anxious to get trained but already have training on the 90 94 96 series ag pressure /flow compensated systems so am familiar with the concept and the company may choose to train some younger techs as I can usually think my way through things. I hope we don't run into the resistance that our competitors did with their closed center systems, Case people don't like a machine that quits when it gets against something hard to dig.
NateV
Well-Known Member
So this new series of backhoe's is going to be the series 3? I kinda thought Case would bring out a new model letter.
NateV
Well-Known Member
I know last week we took our M out around 2 o'clock and droped it off at a parking lot we were going to haul snow out off at 10 pm. The temp was around 25 or so. It has a grid heater and we also plugged it in. We got there and i was really suprised at how much it struggled to start up. Almost sounded like the battery was gettin low. Im not exactly sure as how the grid heater works though.
Nate V,
If you really want to know how the cold start works send me a PM with your email and I will send you some schematics. But basically it works using the temperature sender in the thermostat housing. With the update kit, when the temperature of the coolant is below 45, the controller will send a signal to the cold start relay which allows a direct circuit from the battery, through the grid heater and to ground. This will happen for 2-10 seconds depending on temperature. Now the issue maybe that with a block heater the temp sender is seeing a false reading of sorts. Yes the coolant is warm but the air coming in and the combustions chabers are still going to be cold, therefore it may be hard to start. It is kinda a catch 22, basically the temp sender should be looking at air temperature not coolant.
Yes the new series is going to be a series 3 and yes it will have a grid heater even with the electronic engine. The main differance being it will now be controlled buy the engine controller and not a seperate controller.
The new series will also be getting new transmissions. There will still be the standard powershuttle, however it will now have a SAHR brake. No more anoying buzzergoing off when the lever is out of adjustment. Also the powershift will now be a Carrao make.
If you really want to know how the cold start works send me a PM with your email and I will send you some schematics. But basically it works using the temperature sender in the thermostat housing. With the update kit, when the temperature of the coolant is below 45, the controller will send a signal to the cold start relay which allows a direct circuit from the battery, through the grid heater and to ground. This will happen for 2-10 seconds depending on temperature. Now the issue maybe that with a block heater the temp sender is seeing a false reading of sorts. Yes the coolant is warm but the air coming in and the combustions chabers are still going to be cold, therefore it may be hard to start. It is kinda a catch 22, basically the temp sender should be looking at air temperature not coolant.
Yes the new series is going to be a series 3 and yes it will have a grid heater even with the electronic engine. The main differance being it will now be controlled buy the engine controller and not a seperate controller.
The new series will also be getting new transmissions. There will still be the standard powershuttle, however it will now have a SAHR brake. No more anoying buzzergoing off when the lever is out of adjustment. Also the powershift will now be a Carrao make.
The Case system will not be a true closed center system. The pump will be blocked at about 3gpm, therfore it will act like a gear pump at low pressure standby. This is accomplished using the flow regulator in the backhoe valve similar to the M series 2 580 mechanical machines. The main thing is that the 590SM2 pilot circuit is going to be gone and replaced with the Variable volume or PFC. This shoould be a big improvement.
Feel free to ask anymore questions. I forgot how much fun this kind of is.
Feel free to ask anymore questions. I forgot how much fun this kind of is.
cat320
Charter Member
So this updated grid heater kit will work off the air temp now vs the coolent temp? or a combo of both ? It sounds like it will suck up more juice to get it going in cold weather . so I guess a good option would be to stick with the dual battery set up.I have one idea for case they should make the compartment bigger for bigger batteries.
Please post any pics or drawing of any new case inovations on the 580.
Please post any pics or drawing of any new case inovations on the 580.
The updated system discussed earlier will cut out the grid heater during Cranking. Therefore you have full battery power available to crank the engine. It takes a measurment of the coolant temperature only. it is my personal opinion that it should be monitoring both air and coolant. Not sure if this will be done on series 3 or not, probably not.
melben
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,030
- Location
- Williamsport, Pa
- Occupation
- Retired 50 Yrs with Case dealership
Snowy, as you pointed out earlier, the block heater renders the grid heater useless, if the water temp is above 45 the grid heater recieves a signal from the water temp sender at the front of the engine effectively shutting off the Grid heater. If the air temp was read as the factor to turn on the grid heater then the hot water block heater would work making a really easy starting engine and saving much on required starting amps.
What I thought was interesting is the post heat phase, the circuitry is designed to hold grid heater action for a period of time after startup, Interesting to watch the Voltmeter lay down till the post heat is complete then pop up to normal. I have started these units at 10 F and they start easily, really just like summer and come up running clean, no miss or white smoke and they don't have to turn fast.
What I thought was interesting is the post heat phase, the circuitry is designed to hold grid heater action for a period of time after startup, Interesting to watch the Voltmeter lay down till the post heat is complete then pop up to normal. I have started these units at 10 F and they start easily, really just like summer and come up running clean, no miss or white smoke and they don't have to turn fast.
Snowycuda,
Thanks for volunteering your time for some Q&A. I have an '05 Super M and it is a cranky critter when it's cold out. Kinda surprises me compared to my DT466 which starts like it's 80* outside even if it's 15*.
So i don't have the updated software in mine to improve starting? How much do you think it will cost to have a road service update done to mine?
I just replaced my batteries yesterday because they're shot after 3 yrs/1,200 hrs. I think the cold starts this winter did them in. I also notice my red warning light stays on when it's cold for a long time. Any ideas what that's all about? Is this just real cold hydraulic fluid? Filter was just changed 100hrs ago. Should I increase idle more when it's cold?
Thanks a bunch.
Thanks for volunteering your time for some Q&A. I have an '05 Super M and it is a cranky critter when it's cold out. Kinda surprises me compared to my DT466 which starts like it's 80* outside even if it's 15*.
So i don't have the updated software in mine to improve starting? How much do you think it will cost to have a road service update done to mine?
I just replaced my batteries yesterday because they're shot after 3 yrs/1,200 hrs. I think the cold starts this winter did them in. I also notice my red warning light stays on when it's cold for a long time. Any ideas what that's all about? Is this just real cold hydraulic fluid? Filter was just changed 100hrs ago. Should I increase idle more when it's cold?
Thanks a bunch.
Last edited:
Reuben
Senior Member
No good for starting under 15 deg or so.Couldnt use either with the grid heater so we installed a block heater.$80 bucks from local case dealer,1 hour to instal already pre tapped for bolts,just drain the coolant down, pull out the soft plug that has the holes ready for the bolts,and bolt the block heater on.refill coolant and your ready to go.Just plugged ours in 10 minutes ago. Since the installation of the block heater it starts instantly even though the temp has gotten down below zero.It is easier on the engine,starter and batteries to have the block heater.If you own a "M" in a winter environment I would get one yesterday