Chinese Heavy Equipment without quality are dominating the world?

[terraplenagem]

I ask this because in my country (Brazil), the Chinese equipment, especially excavators, wheel loaders, backhoes and skid steers, not to mention the cars of course, are dominating the market.

The price is ridiculously cheap prices reaching up to 40% cheaper than domestic equipment of renowned and established brands such as Caterpillar and Case.

Pay less when buying equipment is crucial, very important for a company to grow. However, the quality of Chinese equipment is terrible, a joke. ointhead

Here in Brazil, we do not care about electronics equipment, to speak truth, to prefer that embedded technology is as small as possible to facilitate and cheapen maintenance. This is the justification for Chinese cheaper prices, however, the structure of the machines is low and reliability is ridiculous.

Today, especially, I'd rather have a machine Caterpillar 20 years older than a New Chinese.

In the USA it's the same? I guess I read the news that Chinese products of poor quality, are increasingly dominating the world, in all markets. :Banghead

 

[Huntoon]

Dominate the world? No, they will gain larger market shares than perhaps many other countries, but I don't think China will be the one source ever.

With time, China's quality will increase. Also, with time, their prices will go up. Everything will even out.... until the next big thing happens and gets everyone talking again.

 

[terraplenagem]

When I talk about "dominating the world" I'm kidding, of course.

Will the Chinese be able to increase the quality of their products as did the Japanese and South Korean, however, keeping the price so low?

 

[surfer-joe]

Current Chinese heavy equipment, is like the old Taiwan and Japanese hand tools that appeared in the states back around the late fifties and early sixties. Just so-so for the average homeowner, not aceptable at all for professional mechanics that used them every day for a living. If folks remember, one risked a badly injured knuckle or a long gash on the arm when using those tools, and they often broke or rounded off the first time used. Just not safe to have in your toolbox. The early Japanese heavy equipment was the same way, cheap, unreliable, and busted most of the time. In other words, you used it as long as it worked, then scrapped it and got another one, or learned your lesson and bought better quality. The Chinese made stuff is where the Japanese were in 1955.

I do agree with simplicity however. Our modern equipment is so complex. The average mechanic hasn't a clue on where to start with the electronics, so an expensive manufacturer trained and equipped technician has to come out and figure out the problem, and fix it.

Chinese equipment will get better in quality, and higher in price as they stumble along. One has to remember that Nippon stole almost all they know about heavy earthmoving equipment from Caterpillar. Their engineers and spies were common as ticks at every large equipment show, busy with tape measure, calipers, cameras, and a couple of guys writing notes furiously as a band of five to six individuals surrounded various machines.

People ought to remember that back in the eighties, when Mercedes purchased the truckmaker, Freightliner, they did almost the same thing. Made a few changes in sheet metal, some better quality inside the cab, and voila, a fairly ugly tractor, and a very cheap price. They did the same thing with cheap parts, and last but not least, they bought up several small truck and trailer dealerships around the country, Colorado Kenworth was one of them, and they bought themselves market share, just like the Chinese are doing now.

 

[Plant Fitter]

The Chinese will never dominate anything while they think that all they have to do is sell you the machine, and then not support it from then onwards.

 

[louisejane]

For most poor countries, South Korea is a model of growth, a better exemplar than China, which is too vast to copy, and better, too, than Taiwan, Singapore or Hong Kong. All three are richer than Korea but all are, in different ways, exceptions: Singapore and Hong Kong are city states, while Taiwan's disputed sovereignty makes it sui generis.

 

[rabia]

If Chinese market is dominating then the main reason of their growth is buyers. Majority buyers purchase products based solely on price. That's why their market share is increasing. But China is not only one player in this category. many other countries are also playing this role. Infect there are many good quality products for which no one can compete China.

 

[terraplenagem]

Current Chinese heavy equipment, is like the old Taiwan and Japanese hand tools that appeared in the states back around the late fifties and early sixties. Just so-so for the average homeowner, not aceptable at all for professional mechanics that used them every day for a living. If folks remember, one risked a badly injured knuckle or a long gash on the arm when using those tools, and they often broke or rounded off the first time used. Just not safe to have in your toolbox. The early Japanese heavy equipment was the same way, cheap, unreliable, and busted most of the time. In other words, you used it as long as it worked, then scrapped it and got another one, or learned your lesson and bought better quality. The Chinese made stuff is where the Japanese were in 1955.

I do agree with simplicity however. Our modern equipment is so complex. The average mechanic hasn't a clue on where to start with the electronics, so an expensive manufacturer trained and equipped technician has to come out and figure out the problem, and fix it.

Chinese equipment will get better in quality, and higher in price as they stumble along. One has to remember that Nippon stole almost all they know about heavy earthmoving equipment from Caterpillar. Their engineers and spies were common as ticks at every large equipment show, busy with tape measure, calipers, cameras, and a couple of guys writing notes furiously as a band of five to six individuals surrounded various machines.

People ought to remember that back in the eighties, when Mercedes purchased the truckmaker, Freightliner, they did almost the same thing. Made a few changes in sheet metal, some better quality inside the cab, and voila, a fairly ugly tractor, and a very cheap price. They did the same thing with cheap parts, and last but not least, they bought up several small truck and trailer dealerships around the country, Colorado Kenworth was one of them, and they bought themselves market share, just like the Chinese are doing now.

I agree wholeheartedly. Actually, not so much credit that embedded technology will result in savings and productivity. For me, in the earthwork, the simpler the better.

I liked the example involving Mercedes and Freightliner, did not know it.

The Chinese will never dominate anything while they think that all they have to do is sell you the machine, and then not support it from then onwards.

This really is a fact. Here in Brazil, selling at prices much cheaper than domestic equipment (up to 30% below) and half the price of North American equipment, for example.

The big problem is the aftermarket, is not supported! When there, the pieces are long delayed and equipment stands.

For most poor countries, South Korea is a model of growth, a better exemplar than China, which is too vast to copy, and better, too, than Taiwan, Singapore or Hong Kong. All three are richer than Korea but all are, in different ways, exceptions: Singapore and Hong Kong are city states, while Taiwan's disputed sovereignty makes it sui generis.

Interesting ...

If Chinese market is dominating then the main reason of their growth is buyers. Majority buyers purchase products based solely on price. That's why their market share is increasing. But China is not only one player in this category. many other countries are also playing this role. Infect there are many good quality products for which no one can compete China.

Unfortunately here in Brazil we have a dumb consumer market, most of it is fact.

This is a problem I try to explain to my clients, but honestly, it is very difficult to change a culture in the short term.

My father always taught me two things on the purchase:
1. What is good is expensive;
2. The cheap comes out expensive sometimes.

And consumer goods are different capital goods (equipment). Buying equipment is a long term investment, one can not just think the economy performed during the acquisition, but as the equipment will be maintained over the years, what your income and what its resale value.

 

[louisejane]

You have a point here. I agree with you on that. But there's still lot of upcoming gadgets that will surely attracts people's attention. How will you handle?

 

[terraplenagem]

You have a point here. I agree with you on that. But there's still lot of upcoming gadgets that will surely attracts people's attention. How will you handle?

Sorry, I could better explain your question? Perhaps the translation did not understand completely what you asked, sorry.

 

[AlloaExcavating]

i have yet too see a quality product from china, anyone who has please share

 

[louisejane]

i have yet too see a quality product from china, anyone who has please share

What kind of product you were looking for?

 

[terraplenagem]

i have yet too see a quality product from china, anyone who has please share

Well, there are many products today, made in China and have a certain level of acceptable quality, always products of multinationals from USA, Japan or South Korea, what have a factory there, where cost reduction is achieved by the cheap labor, mainly.

Electronics like cell phones, smartphones, notebooks, TVs and components such as motherboard, memory, hard disk drives, processors, among others, have a standard of quality in manufacturing stipulated by the foreign company, be it Intel, AMD, Asus, LG, Samsung...

However, when it comes to products "genuine" Chinese, who had never met any quality that compares to Brazilian products, and especially North Americans and Europeans (French, German and British).

Let it be clear that I am not against the Chinese, would never say that!

I refer mainly to the area which we propose to discuss in this forum, heavy machinery. What I mean is that the Chinese need to invest in quality. The simplicity of its equipment is something that pleases me very much, I hate over-board electronics of North Americans equipment for earthmoving / earthworks. I think the Chinese should keep it simple, keeping much of the mechanical components (without electronics) and invest in development mainly in the structure of their machines for strength and durability, is clear from what has been said here, the best much your post-sale and supply of spare parts.

In Brazil today, we have a strong presence of brands of equipment such as SDLG, LiuGong, XGMA, Lishide, Jingong, Lonking, Sany, Tiangong, Yuchai, Yutong, SEM and other, which despite offering great equipment at incredible prices, do not come close to the quality of other brands such as Caterpillar, Case, New Holland (old Fiatallis in Brazil), Komatsu, Volvo, Terex, Liebherr and even the Brazilian manufacturer called Randon.

 

[AlloaExcavating]

a quality piece of heavy equipment.

 

[Huntoon]

In Brazil today, we have a strong presence of brands of equipment such as SDLG, LiuGong, XGMA, Lishide, Jingong, Lonking, Sany, Tiangong, Yuchai, Yutong, SEM and other, which despite offering great equipment at incredible prices, do not come close to the quality of other brands such as Caterpillar, Case, New Holland (old Fiatallis in Brazil), Komatsu, Volvo, Terex, Liebherr and even the Brazilian manufacturer called Randon.

A lot of the high quality stuff is made in China, just owned by the Western companies. I think quality comes down to the managers at the factory.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

i have yet too see a quality product from china, anyone who has please share

Well I have small engines that are providing the same level of service as Honda/Kohler at less than half the price.

Just yesterday I stripped down a two inch pump that has been pumping 2000litres of concentrated fertilizer sulution every fortnight for five years . . . fitted new packings and replaced the hardware with 316 stainless and it will be good to go for ten or fifteen years. . . pump cost $260.00 versus $800 for a firefighter which last two years max.

You have to be selective. My wife bought a couple of schmiko recliners, you can't fault their construction and they are I the most comfortable chairs we've ever owned.

Chinese (and Indian) worm reducers make projects viable that would not get off the ground if I was to rely on American or Italian built units.
Not sayin' this is good or right, I shop around and look after number one . . . that's just the way it is.

Cheers.

 

[terraplenagem]

Yair . . .


Well I have small engines that are providing the same level of service as Honda/Kohler at less than half the price.

Just yesterday I stripped down a two inch pump that has been pumping 2000litres of concentrated fertilizer sulution every fortnight for five years . . . fitted new packings and replaced the hardware with 316 stainless and it will be good to go for ten or fifteen years. . . pump cost $260.00 versus $800 for a firefighter which last two years max.

You have to be selective. My wife bought a couple of schmiko recliners, you can't fault their construction and they are I the most comfortable chairs we've ever owned.

Chinese (and Indian) worm reducers make projects viable that would not get off the ground if I was to rely on American or Italian built units.
Not sayin' this is good or right, I shop around and look after number one . . . that's just the way it is.

Cheers.

Honda and Kohler are not Chinese. Even if they are manufactured in China, but are not Chinese companies, therefore, usually remains the standard of quality of the matrix, in this case, Honda of Japan and Kohler from USA.

Well, at least here in Brazil, Chinese products (from Chinese companies), has much lower quality than products made in Brazil, but far below it. Often, the low price does not justify the choice of products of Chinese companies because the problems that may arise due to failure or breakage may result in a huge loss and damage to health of the people involved.

 

[lantraxco]

i have yet too see a quality product from china, anyone who has please share

I have things manufactured in China to order, it's a very simple situation: you explain in detail what you want, give exact specifications and explain the level of quality you demand, then hire a third party (Usually ex-pat American or European) inspector to check on production, quality control and packing. You get exactly what you demand and are willing to pay for, and they are happy to give it to you if you are willing to pay what they think is a fair price. YMMV

 

[Birken Vogt]

I can't argue with your experience on pumps and chairs and worm reducers, but what I have to say that Chinese small engines are pretty bad, at least the ones we get in the US. Whereas Hondas usually just lose more and more compression over the years, and finally won't run whatever they are connected to any more. But they give you lots of warning before they go. The Chinese engines break a connecting rod or rocker arm or push rod which is hard to get a replacement.

Yair . . .


Well I have small engines that are providing the same level of service as Honda/Kohler at less than half the price.

Just yesterday I stripped down a two inch pump that has been pumping 2000litres of concentrated fertilizer sulution every fortnight for five years . . . fitted new packings and replaced the hardware with 316 stainless and it will be good to go for ten or fifteen years. . . pump cost $260.00 versus $800 for a firefighter which last two years max.

You have to be selective. My wife bought a couple of schmiko recliners, you can't fault their construction and they are I the most comfortable chairs we've ever owned.

Chinese (and Indian) worm reducers make projects viable that would not get off the ground if I was to rely on American or Italian built units.
Not sayin' this is good or right, I shop around and look after number one . . . that's just the way it is.

Cheers.

 

[td25c]

I"m intrigued by this Shantui SD22 dozer . Also like the big cam Cummins engine in it .

http://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-equipment/for-sale/11687935/2014-shantui-sd22

Machine looks good , other then that don't know anything about them ?

http://en.shantui.com/product/8156.htm