Diffrence between expensive and cheap hydraulic oil?

[Livetoride]

Hey everyone, Been in the earth moving game for a few years but have always been lucky to work for moneys no object company's with the best of everything. Now I'm out on my own things are different.

What I was wondering was how much of a difference is there between expensive and just normal hydro oil? I'm sick of paying $170 aud for 20L Drum, So I'm looking at getting a 202L drum. Some brands are in excess of $1500 a drum but then there's a few that Ive noticed on a local page for around the $600 to $900 mark. Now they are not know brands but is there that much of a difference?

I'm using it the oil in a Cat multi terrain loader, Cat roller, Milling head and a level best grader. Before I jump into the cheap ones I just though Id check if the extra savings is worth it, or will cause more damage than what they are worth.

Thanks, Daniel

 

[Nige]

A trick I've often found that works with hydraulic oils is to look at the OEM manufacturer's data sheet (you should be able to find it on the internet somewhere) for their branded oil and see what external test standards it meets. These are often Vickers (35VQ25 is a common one) or Dennison tests and there may well be others as well. Then in any oil you are thinknig of buying look for it meeting the same test standards as the OEM oil. That way you can compare 2 oils directly because you know they meet the same standard.

IMHO a good oil (& filters) is the cheapest insurance policy you can ever buy for your equipment and if you buy the cheapest oil from Joe Blow's Gas & Groceries it usually ends in tears.

 

[maddog]

what is in a name? Some brand name oils rebadge their oil so they can keep some $$$ coming in. They know that someone will always buy "name brand" but they also know they need to feed the business. Much like certain equipment manufacturers will sell a knock off, it keeps the money rolling.
As Nige wrote, manufacturer's data sheet should give the info you need, plus you should be able to find out what your particular machine/application needs.

This topic is a tough one, much like Ford vs Chevy, type of tire/track to use etc... you'll get a 100 different opinions. IMO use the proper oil for the machine/application and leave the name brand for the Kardashians.

 

[hetkind]

I tend to buy one of two ways...experience and API spec. If the spec sheet shows that it meets criteria, as in viscosity and application (CC/CD/CF series for diesel oils or the SG/SN series for gasoline) and sometimes the equipment manufactures's spec, then on reputation. No one screws up by buying Mobil 1 for a light truck engine or Rotella for a diesel application. It is the generic stuff sold by the farm COOPs and the Farm and Ranch stores (TSC and the like) that I usually use for keep in stock, with good results for the last 30 years.

Then there is the lower tier stuff sold at grocery and convenience stores. One store had fake Quaker State oil labeled as Quaker Maid, or the Odd Lots/Big Lots chain selling off spec non-detergent mineral as "misible" with all leading brands. Beware of that stuff!

 

[Delmer]

Beware of "recommended for use in" or "recommended for the following specifications" you'll see those on the back of the cheaper grades of hydraulic/transmission fluids. That's not claiming it meets those specs, just "name dropping", "recommended for experienced mechanics like Nige"

On the other hand, I recently saw the very cheapest bucket says "not recommended for modern...", you better believe it when they say that.

This might be a US thing only?

 

[Queenslander]

Have you priced oil from your Cat dealer down there Daniel?
I've always found our dealer to be very competitive with other quality brands.
I just did a quick check on Hydo Advanced and they are quoting $1063 inc. tax, for 205 L
They also offer an additional !5% off if you purchase oil and filters on the same invoice.
Best part is you can sleep easy at night.
Cheers, Greg

 

[Queenslander]

That's 15% off....

 

[Livetoride]

Thanks for the reply's and advice. I'm yet to price fluid from cat but I will seeing as I need a service in the next 200hrs. I feel like I should get genuine oil but if it has the same properties as the cheaper one it shouldn't matter.

This is the specs from what Ive been told to get - Its a Valvoline Hydratrans
http://www.valvoline.com.au/explore...actor-oil/valvoline-farmplus-hydratrans-fluid

SAE Viscosity Grade 10W30, 80W
Viscosity @ 100 °C, mm2/s, ASTM D445 9.7
Viscosity @ 40 °C, mm2/s, ASTM D445 60.7
Viscosity Index, ASTM D2270 143
Pour Point, °C, ASTM D5950 -24
Density @ 15.0°C, kg/L, ASTM D4052 0.861


This is the other one I was looking at- Pure Fluid Power Pty Ltd
http://purefluidpower.com.au/products/pure-lubricants/

Viscosity ( Typical cSt @ 40oC) - 68
Viscosity ( Typical cSt @ 100oC) - 8.8
Standards
Meets or exceeds the following:
Eaton Brochure 694 for 35VQ25A (formerly Vickers 1-286-S, M-2950-S.)
DIN 51524, Part 2 (HLP) & Part 3 (HVLP).
Denison HF-1, HF-2, HF-0.
Commercial Hydraulics except those with silver bearing surfaces.
General Motors LS -2.
AFNOR NF E 48-603 HM and HV
Racine variable volume vane pumps.
Cincinnati Milacron P.68, P.69, P.70.

 

[Nige]

You DO NOT have to buy oil from the OEM unless it is priced competitively with other fluids elsewhere. There are plenty of recognised brands out there that are just as good and maybe cheaper. Queenslander makes a good point that OEM dealers often offer deals on fluids that makes their fluids just as cheap or even cheaper than the competition. If that's the case it's well worth buying OEM fluid at the same time as the filters.

The only things that jump out and hits me are this: -

The Valvoline is a multigrade. Personally in your climate I would have thought that was unnecessary and I'm not sure if the Manual even recommends multigrades in the hydraulic system.
The Pure Fluid Power oil viscosity 8.8cSt @ 100C is a bit on the high side. What ISO rating is it, 46 or 68..?

 

[Livetoride]

They are both ISO 68. I think they recommended that type of fluid as they didn't know what else to give me, It is a high flow machine so maybe that thought could have some bearing on the temps even though I believe your talking about the general air temp.

Ill ring Cat on Monday to see what they have to say but I agree I wont be jumping to quickly into them supplying oil to me.

 

[Nige]

I was referring to ambient (gneral air) temp, not system operating temperatures. If I'm reading the weather data correctly for your location the ambient temperatures range from a minimum around freezing in winter to mid/high 20s as a maximum in summer. An ISO68 (SAE30) oil would be recommended for an ambient temperature range of 0 to 50C, an ISO32 (SAE 10W) oil would be recommended for a range of -20 to +40C. So of the two possible alternatives I'd go for an ISO32/SAE10W oil in hydraulic systems.

There is actually a recommendation of a 10W/30 multigrade for use in hydraulic systems but it's a multigrade engine oil, not a "do it all" farm product as the Valvoline Farm Plus Hydtrans fluid appears to be. Farmers love this stuff, it means they don't have to think when adding oil to their machines .......

If it was me I'd go for the SAE10W/ISO32 oil under those circumstances.

 

[M Leach]

There could be a difference in oil types and additive packages. You get what you pay for. The cheap stuff could be a mixture of many different oils when lines are cleaned out from bulk oil deliveries, i.e. motor, hydraulic oil and transmission fluid. Once ran a 5 gallon bucket of brand x hydraulic fluid through an offline filter and you could easily see the difference in the color / cleanliness. Nothing like a factory sealed drum versus one sealed by a local.

 

[fast_st]

Nige, I have a local distributor giving a decent deal on a 55 of Mobilfluid 404, 10 bucks a gallon with free delivery and a $10 charge on the barrel. It does seem to meet the specs for J20C as well as kubota udt, Although a full change on the Deere works out to about 50 gallons for axles/trans/hyd,

 

[frodomocho1]

I use an Ace Hardware ISO 32 anybody think it's any good?

 

[Nige]

I use an Ace Hardware ISO 32 anybody think it's any good?

Read my comment a few posts above referring to buying fluids at Joe Blow's Gas & Groceries......

 

[lantraxco]

Nige, I have a local distributor giving a decent deal on a 55 of Mobilfluid 404, 10 bucks a gallon with free delivery and a $10 charge on the barrel. It does seem to meet the specs for J20C as well as kubota udt, Although a full change on the Deere works out to about 50 gallons for axles/trans/hyd,

I'm thinking current spec Deere Hygard is what you should be using in the Deere machine, I kinda doubt the 404 meets that spec but I didn't look it up.

 

[wrwtexan]

I had also been looking for an alternative to the dealer oil for my recently purchased John Deere/Hitachi trackhoe. It calls for oil meeting JD J20 A,B,C or D. HyGard or Hitachi oil is around $75 a bucket but my local Atwood's has Rotella HD which meets the J20C spec for $55 a bucket. Correct me Nige or others if I assume to much from the brand, but I trust it is up to snuff being a Shell and Rotella product.

 

[Nige]

I'm not a fan of Shell lubricants TBH, but don't let that stop you if it meets the spec you require. At least it's a step up from Joe Blow's.......

 

[Delmer]

I use an Ace Hardware ISO 32 anybody think it's any good?

I'd guess Ace's is a couple steps up from Joe Blow's. Nige probably isn't familiar with Ace. ISO 32 is a viscosity rating though, right? not a spec for the grade of oil that you want to match. What else is on the label and what's it for...

 

[Nige]

I'd guess Ace's is a couple steps up from Joe Blow's. Nige probably isn't familiar with Ace. ISO 32 is a viscosity rating though, right? not a spec for the grade of oil that you want to match. What else is on the label and what's it for...

ISO 32 is a viscosity, equivalent to SAE 10W. see post #2 on Page 1 for specifications.