Production Rates

[Rat_Power_78]

Not sure if this is the right place for this or not. After adding a couple new pieces of equipment at the end of last year, I am trying to figure out how much they can do per hour for estimating purposes. Obviously it would be partly dependent on ground conditions, etc but just kind of looking for a general idea from those more experienced. Machines in question are a Cat 305.5e2 mini ex with a 24 or 36 inch bucket and a Bobcat T590 with a 74(?) inch bucket. Anybody have anything on this, or at least be able to point me in the right direction to figure it out?

 

[hetkind]

Production rates are a factor of load capacity and cycle times. Then you figure in probably 45-50 minutes per hour utilization, subtract maintenance time and there you go...

So in a 10 hour work day, first half hour is machine warm up and maintenance, last half hour is clean up, so now you are down to 9 hours, 50 x 9 is 450 minutes, at a 2 minute cycle is 225 cycles per day, at say 1/2 yard a cycle or 112.5 yards a day.

There is a great text book of excavation called "Moving the Earth", about $25 on Amazon, I has a good chapter on estimating.

Howard

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

The question as posed by Rat_Power_78 is at best, ambiguous . . . production rates for doing what?

It needs clarification for any meaningful advise.

Cheers,

 

[Shimmy1]

Yair . . .

The question as posed by Rat_Power_78 is at best, ambiguous . . . production rates for doing what?

It needs clarification for any meaningful advise.

Cheers,

I won't waste time asking more questions, Scrub has asked the only pertinent one. I'll just throw out what they would be worth here in central ND. The 305 would go for $90-100 per hour, the 590 from $70-85. I am going to make an assumption here however. These size machines are not really suited for too many things besides support equipment. A couple things come to mind. By your profile, I see you're from MN. That means residential water/sewer hookups might be possible, but 8' bury waterlines are going to be a workout for either machine. Site prep and cleanup are good jobs, and finally cemetery work. For grave digging, the 305 might be a tad big. My dad and I had a 304 CCR and that was about perfect.

 

[movindirt]

There is a lot of residential type work you could accomplish with those too machines, but that would be more towards the side of landscaping and lawn grading. Just depends on what you are wanting to accomplish like Scrub said

 

[Rat_Power_78]

Production rates are a factor of load capacity and cycle times. Then you figure in probably 45-50 minutes per hour utilization, subtract maintenance time and there you go...

So in a 10 hour work day, first half hour is machine warm up and maintenance, last half hour is clean up, so now you are down to 9 hours, 50 x 9 is 450 minutes, at a 2 minute cycle is 225 cycles per day, at say 1/2 yard a cycle or 112.5 yards a day.

There is a great text book of excavation called "Moving the Earth", about $25 on Amazon, I has a good chapter on estimating.

Howard

This is roughly what I had guessed. I think I might have that book somewhere.

Yair . . .

The question as posed by Rat_Power_78 is at best, ambiguous . . . production rates for doing what?

It needs clarification for any meaningful advise.

Cheers,

I did not mean it to be that way, it was really just an overly general question. Production rates in terms of digging/yards of material able to be moved in a given time. See below for more detail.

I won't waste time asking more questions, Scrub has asked the only pertinent one. I'll just throw out what they would be worth here in central ND. The 305 would go for $90-100 per hour, the 590 from $70-85. I am going to make an assumption here however. These size machines are not really suited for too many things besides support equipment. A couple things come to mind. By your profile, I see you're from MN. That means residential water/sewer hookups might be possible, but 8' bury waterlines are going to be a workout for either machine. Site prep and cleanup are good jobs, and finally cemetery work. For grave digging, the 305 might be a tad big. My dad and I had a 304 CCR and that was about perfect.

Hourly rates seem to be very regional. I think that is fairly close to what they get around here, still looking into that. As for the kinds of jobs, those are jobs I had not really considered. I am just starting to get into this side of the work as we had not owned equipment like this before, it was always rented.

There is a lot of residential type work you could accomplish with those too machines, but that would be more towards the side of landscaping and lawn grading. Just depends on what you are wanting to accomplish like Scrub said

Landscaping and lawn grading will be the primary uses.

Ok, I will try to clarify and add some detail. I meant this as a general thing, but I may have made it too general. We are a landscape design/build company, and have bought our first mini excavator and ctl. We do a good bit of retaining wall and patio installs, as well as both residential and commercial landscape installs. After renting both machines with increasing frequency the past several years, it was time to own them. I am new to the estimating end side of having one, but not inexperienced at running either. I also have many years experience in a wheeled skid steer so I have a decent idea on what the T590 should be capable of in terms of production. What I am trying to figure out is when we estimate a job that will involve either of these (more so the 305.5), how can I calculate how much work it can do. Hetkind's reply is similar to what I was assuming as far as how much of the day is spent working and cycle times. Hourly rates I think are a more difficult topic. I realize there are limitations to what equipment of this size is capable of doing, that was at times a rather heated discussion we had when deciding what size machine was right for us. So, any guidelines or thoughts I can get on figuring out productivity would be appreciated. Any further questions, please ask.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Rat_Power_78 Your quote below (to me) seems a bit out of step with my reality.

Hourly rates I think are a more difficult topic.

I think in old ways but, when estimating/quoting a job hourly rates must be known as they give the starting point for calculations. . . plug in the hourly rate and then estimate the time and contingencies . . . that used to be the art of quoting.

Our hourly rates were based on running and ownership costs plus a component for profit and, in tight times that profit component could be shaved back a bit to get a job and keep the crew in work. If plenty of work was around it could be bumped up a bit and could be reflected in the quote.

The fairest way to work is to have suitable machinery in good condition competently operated for a fair and reasonable hourly rate and that was our preferred option . . . we always worked hourly rate where possible and basically only quoted on government jobs which required tenders.

In short I don't see how you can calculate a job without knowing a fair and reasonable hourly rate for all machines and personnel involved . . . costs and mark up on materials should be simple.

Cheers.

 

[Rat_Power_78]

Yair . . .

Rat_Power_78



Folks around here know I think in old ways but, when estimating/quoting a job, I don't see how you can do the calculations without knowing a fair and reasonable hourly rate for all machines and personnel involved in the project.

Cheers.

I would completely agree to that. I did not bring that up for a couple reasons. In my experience, hourly rates seem to be very different from region to region. Maybe this is less true with dirt work, but certainly seems to be true in other aspects of my line of work. Rates for the personnel I can figure out. We have fairly solid numbers on what our guys cost us per hour so I think I have that part figured out more or less. The machine rates I still need to finalize, which I am working on.

I think estimating is really just knowing what your rates are and how long it will take. Kind of an over simplified way to look at it I guess.

 

[CM1995]

I think in old ways but, when estimating/quoting a job hourly rates must be known as they give the starting point for calculations. . . plug in the hourly rate and then estimate the time and contingencies . . . that used to be the art of quoting.

Our hourly rates were based on running and ownership costs plus a component for profit and, in tight times that profit component could be shaved back a bit to get a job and keep the crew in work. If plenty of work was around it could be bumped up a bit and could be reflected in the quote.

That's the way I estimate jobs Scrub so I guess I'm old school too.

I have an hourly rate for all my machines plugged into a spreadsheet X the hours I think it will take and then an O&P mark-up on top of the total line item. That mark-up can be adjusted up or down depending on the work load.

We mostly do hard bid work, I've found I make more that way than hourly.

I would completely agree to that. I did not bring that up for a couple reasons. In my experience, hourly rates seem to be very different from region to region. Maybe this is less true with dirt work, but certainly seems to be true in other aspects of my line of work. Rates for the personnel I can figure out. We have fairly solid numbers on what our guys cost us per hour so I think I have that part figured out more or less. The machine rates I still need to finalize, which I am working on.

I think estimating is really just knowing what your rates are and how long it will take. Kind of an over simplified way to look at it I guess.

It's not oversimplified at all, it's the foundation of estimating a job.

You can massage the mark-up on the job depending on work load but you need to get paid for running the equipment. Your equipment shouldn't be loss leaders on a job, they need to make a profit standing alone or you don't need them. Figure out what you machines will cost to own and operate per hour plus the profit you want to make.

There is no shame in finding out what your local market is paying per hour for the pieces of iron you have. Like you said hourly rates vary regionally due to different operating costs. Not advocating copying their pricing but it gives you an idea what the market is bearing and then figure your costs and profit/overhead needed.

Don't forget mobilization costs and charge accordingly.

What is the bulk of the work the machines will do? By the hour or for your own projects?