• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

How stupid is this

hetkind

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
472
Location
Unicoi, TN
2 years ago we had 5000gal of acetone go up when the guy filling it left his phone in his pocket and got a call. I saw the security footage...you've never seen fire until you see a fire like that.

Acetone has been quite the problem, very low flash point, low initiation energy, high vapor pressure. I have seen acetone vapor set off by rubbing nomex coveralls on plexiglass. As a teenager, I used to use acetone in my zippo lighter since I had a free supply from my father's medical laboratory.

Howard
 

Truck Shop

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
16,540
Location
WWW.
Here's a regulation few know about. FMVS rule that all commercial vehicles with air brakes have the air tanks tested once a year. At 500 psi for 10 minutes.
First where am I going to find 500 psi air pressure to test with. Have any of you folks ever seen anyone do a yearly test on truck air tanks? Not to mention
I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a truck air tank at 500 psi.

Truck Shop
 

hetkind

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
472
Location
Unicoi, TN
Here's a regulation few know about. FMVS rule that all commercial vehicles with air brakes have the air tanks tested once a year. At 500 psi for 10 minutes.
First where am I going to find 500 psi air pressure to test with. Have any of you folks ever seen anyone do a yearly test on truck air tanks? Not to mention
I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a truck air tank at 500 psi.

Truck Shop

That is an easy one...call up your gas supplier and get a tank of nitrogen and two stage regulator that goes to five hundred psi. Then test while on the other side of a reinforced concrete wall, like they do split rims behind.

Howard
 

Dozerboy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
2,232
Location
TX
Occupation
Operator
Here's a regulation few know about. FMVS rule that all commercial vehicles with air brakes have the air tanks tested once a year. At 500 psi for 10 minutes.
First where am I going to find 500 psi air pressure to test with. Have any of you folks ever seen anyone do a yearly test on truck air tanks? Not to mention
I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a truck air tank at 500 psi.

Truck Shop
No way I got scared then the regulator when out and I hit 200psi on my way to the shop.
 

RZucker

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
4,077
Location
Wherever I end up
Occupation
Mechanic/welder
Here's a regulation few know about. FMVS rule that all commercial vehicles with air brakes have the air tanks tested once a year. At 500 psi for 10 minutes.
First where am I going to find 500 psi air pressure to test with. Have any of you folks ever seen anyone do a yearly test on truck air tanks? Not to mention
I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a truck air tank at 500 psi.

Truck Shop

That's a test that shoulb done with water, similar to a hydrotest for boilers. Water doesn't compress and release energy like bomb if the vessel ruptures. You'll just get wet.:D
 

kshansen

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
11,128
Location
Central New York, USA
Occupation
Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
That's a test that shoulb done with water, similar to a hydrotest for boilers. Water doesn't compress and release energy like bomb if the vessel ruptures. You'll just get wet.:D

Gee I thought the test was to empty a can of starting fluid into the tank then hold your ciggy lighter next to the inlet!
 

Truck Shop

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
16,540
Location
WWW.
That's a test that shoulb done with water, similar to a hydrotest for boilers. Water doesn't compress and release energy like bomb if the vessel ruptures. You'll just get wet.:D

And yes the test calls for a hydro static test. But I guess the point I was making is no one does an annual test.

S5.1.2.2Each reservoir shall be capable of withstanding an internal hydrostatic pressure of five times the compressor cutout pressure or 500 psi, whichever is greater, for 10 minutes.

Truck Shop
 

Truck Shop

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
16,540
Location
WWW.
That is an easy one...call up your gas supplier and get a tank of nitrogen and two stage regulator that goes to five hundred psi. Then test while on the other side of a reinforced concrete wall, like they do split rims behind.

Howard

Yah there is always an easy way. Just do this and that never mind money and time wasted. It's just a silly a$$ regulation.

Truck Shop
 

fixou812

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
677
Location
Buffalo NY
Occupation
Millwright Equipment Mechanic Welder
I used to add 2/3 oz. Of acetone to every 5 gallons of gasoline Made it run Real good and better milage.
Acetone has been quite the problem, very low flash point, low initiation energy, high vapor pressure. I have seen acetone vapor set off by rubbing nomex coveralls on plexiglass. As a teenager, I used to use acetone in my zippo lighter since I had a free supply from my father's medical laboratory.

Howard
 

Heavey Metal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
148
Location
Texas
That is an easy one...call up your gas supplier and get a tank of nitrogen and two stage regulator that goes to five hundred psi. Then test while on the other side of a reinforced concrete wall, like they do split rims behind.

Howard

Typical dum as safety engineer

The most dangerous person on the job.
 

hetkind

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
472
Location
Unicoi, TN
Typical dum as safety engineer

The most dangerous person on the job.

Let me help you out with that...I think you wanted to say "dumb ass" and we all have rights to our opinion. We all know guys who ended in safety because they screwed every OTHER job up. When I was young I had bosses like that, later I was given teammates like that, now, that I am older and wiser, I can find them good homes where they can do little damage.

But if we go back, the original question was "how do you test at 500 psi" NOT "should you test at 500 psi"

The ASME pressure vessel code allows a air test when a hydrostatic could contaminate the system, and they require shielding for possible primary and secondary fragments. The split rim shops around here have a separate bay with a good reinforced concrete wall the operator stands behind to inflate instead of a cage. This would contain the possible fragments if the air tank let go.

I look at test plans for high explosives on a weekly basis and know exactly what high energy fragments will do. It takes a good chunk of high explosives to generate 500 psi at 20 feet.

Howard
 

td25c

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2009
Messages
5,250
Location
indiana
Yah there is always an easy way. Just do this and that never mind money and time wasted. It's just a silly a$$ regulation.

Truck Shop

Never heard of that one Truck Shop , I imagine if everyone tested trucks & equipment to that PSI it would stimulate air tank & related component sales . LOL!:D
 

Heavey Metal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
148
Location
Texas
Let me help you out with that...I think you wanted to say "dumb ass" and we all have rights to our opinion. We all know guys who ended in safety because they screwed every OTHER job up. When I was young I had bosses like that, later I was given teammates like that, now, that I am older and wiser, I can find them good homes where they can do little damage.

But if we go back, the original question was "how do you test at 500 psi" NOT "should you test at 500 psi"

The ASME pressure vessel code allows a air test when a hydrostatic could contaminate the system, and they require shielding for possible primary and secondary fragments. The split rim shops around here have a separate bay with a good reinforced concrete wall the operator stands behind to inflate instead of a cage. This would contain the possible fragments if the air tank let go.

I look at test plans for high explosives on a weekly basis and know exactly what high energy fragments will do. It takes a good chunk of high explosives to generate 500 psi at 20 feet.

Howard

Come on dude face it that was really bad advice for you to tell someone to put 500 psi of nitrogen in an air tank.

But than anyone with a lick of sence knows it would be hydrostatic.
 

hetkind

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
472
Location
Unicoi, TN
Come on dude face it that was really bad advice for you to tell someone to put 500 psi of nitrogen in an air tank.

But than anyone with a lick of sence knows it would be hydrostatic.

If I told someone to PUT 500 psi in a air tank with a hydrostatic test requirement, I would be wrong. What I said was getting the 500 psi air to put in was the easy part...


However, not going to wrestle with pig, you both the get dirty and pig enjoys it.

Howard
 

Truck Shop

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
16,540
Location
WWW.
I never intended to test any air tanks. And FMVS has changed it's rules about testing annually on commercial vehicles. I can't find the rule
on that, It had been around for years. I know it was there two years ago. My point was there test improperly done would lead to more
people being injured.

The FMVS only changed the requirements on the material and strength testing of trailer kingpins five years ago. It had been the same for
75 plus years.
 

hetkind

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
472
Location
Unicoi, TN
I never intended to test any air tanks. And FMVS has changed it's rules about testing annually on commercial vehicles. I can't find the rule
on that, It had been around for years. I know it was there two years ago. My point was there test improperly done would lead to more
people being injured.

The FMVS only changed the requirements on the material and strength testing of trailer kingpins five years ago. It had been the same for
75 plus years.

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease...I can see that a hydrostatic test improperly done would fill the system with water, and then have it freeze solid in cold weather. I would think that removing the air tank to be tested by a specialty vendor would be expensive. On the other hand, how would you find internal corrosion that would affect the overall strength? Since I am not in the trucking industry, I haven't read the FMVS.

Howard

Howard
 

Heavey Metal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
148
Location
Texas
If I told someone to PUT 500 psi in a air tank with a hydrostatic test requirement, I would be wrong. What I said was getting the 500 psi air to put in was the easy part...


However, not going to wrestle with pig, you both the get dirty and pig enjoys it.

Howard

Please refer to post # 23 this thread.
 

Heavey Metal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
148
Location
Texas
Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease...I can see that a hydrostatic test improperly done would fill the system with water, and then have it freeze solid in cold weather. I would think that removing the air tank to be tested by a specialty vendor would be expensive. On the other hand, how would you find internal corrosion that would affect the overall strength? Since I am not in the trucking industry, I haven't read the FMVS.

Howard

Howard

Sence you have no knowledge of this subject please refrain from giving dangerous advice.

Here is the proper procedure which includes measuring the amount that the tank swells
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...oiwr00TId-9RVu1kA&sig2=pSC5rvBrvbro4LEwJSCgMw
 

kshansen

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
11,128
Location
Central New York, USA
Occupation
Retired Mechanic in Stone Quarry
Sence you have no knowledge of this subject please refrain from giving dangerous advice.

Here is the proper procedure which includes measuring the amount that the tank swells
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...oiwr00TId-9RVu1kA&sig2=pSC5rvBrvbro4LEwJSCgMw

Maybe I am missing it but I do not see in the link posted that this is to be a "once a year" test as the poster in #22 said it was. What I did read in the link was:
NOTE: Since this test is potentially a destructive test, proper safety
precautions should be observed. Consult the COTR for disposition of test
reservoirs. Proper shielding of the test reservoir is recommended in the
event the reservoir should rupture during the test. Under no
circumstances should the tested reservoirs be placed in service on a
vehicle.

The bolding and under line is my addition!
 

hetkind

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2015
Messages
472
Location
Unicoi, TN
Now it makes sense...this is a design verification test, and has nothing to do with normal vehicle maintenance.

All this noise about something that occurs in a testing laboratory to certify the design of a braking system.

Howard
 
Top