Cat vs. Miller lawsuit

[tctractors]

WesJ, open up your map of the World and you will see the U.K. in the Middle at the Top, not to 1 side like the U.S.A. then look at your clock as we invented time in the U.K. all the clocks in the World are basic set from our clock in kitchen, its another thing we have invented and let the rest of the World use.
Back to the Perkins issue and the fine thread (UNF) well even CAT use fine thread on D8 Head studs as an eg'

keep it up Wes I love a laugh, but you are beating me with your experience tctractors

 

[Nige]

Someone apparently has forgotten to follow the tenet of the "First Rule of Holes" which reads - "as soon as you realize you're in one - stop digging" .............. ointhead

 

[Wes J]

You claim the Deere 444, 544 and 644 were Hitachis badged as Deere machines. I believe you'll find the exact opposite. The Deere machines were badged as Hitachi machines.

Huh? We own a 444E. It says "John Deere" in huge letters on the side. On the serial number tag it says "Hitachi Made in Japan". There is a joint Hitachi-Deere plant in the US that only builds a few models of excavators under both marques.

 

[Wes J]

You claim that Cat owns 80% of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, that is false. They may own a percentage of the joint venture they have with Mitsubishi, but they do not own Mitsubishi Heavy Industries.

You claim that Link Belt machines are made by Samsung, that is false. In the case of the hoes, they are made by Sumitomo. If you want to get down to it, Samsung hoes were bought out by Volvo, and Samsung no longer makes hoes at all.

I clarified the Mitsubishi statement. It doesn't change the fact that plenty of Mitsubishi equipment runs around with "Cat" labels on it. Forklifts, skid steers, excavators, etc, etc. Cat has sold forklifts made by Eagle Pitcher, Towmotor, and others. They may have owned Towmotor for a while until it became Royal.

Yes, I did confuse Samsung and Sumitomo. My humble apologies.

 

[Wes J]

You claim that Hough made IH's machines, but in fact, IH made IH's machines. They bought out Hough many years ago, and rolled them into their product line.

You claim that Drott made Case machines, when again, The parent company Tenneco, bought Drott and rolled them into Case as a division of Case.

I said Hough = IH and Drott = Case. That's completely true. Hough made loader attachments for IH for years before they were bought by IH. My dad had a TD-9 with a Hough loader. Drott was rolled into Case by Tenneco and many machines were sold with both Drott and Case labels on them.

What is false about that statement?

 

[Wes J]

Back to the Perkins issue and the fine thread (UNF) well even CAT use fine thread on D8 Head studs as an eg'

There are plenty of technical reasons to use a fine thread fastener in some critical applications. There is no sensible reason to use them everywhere.

 

[Wes J]

Alright boys. Bring it on!

I'm getting my wig powdered this afternoon and my Austin Allegro should be out of the shop so I can turn in this Morris Marina loner they gave me...

 

[rsherril]

" Now if all you guys want to talk about a real aircraft take a look at the F-22. Now its the real
deal! "

Not that I know anything about aircraft, but I caught this several months ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBKvlLzGkvU

 

[repowerguy]

Wes, one thing I've learned is that Britain makes the best movie villains ever known, except for Benny Hill, he didn't get the memo.

 

[movindirt]

Wes, one thing I've learned is that Britain makes the best movie villains ever known, except for Benny Hill, he didn't get the memo.

I thought Marvel was from the US?

 

[ih100]

I clarified the Mitsubishi statement. It doesn't change the fact that plenty of Mitsubishi equipment runs around with "Cat" labels on it. Forklifts, skid steers, excavators, etc, etc. Cat has sold forklifts made by Eagle Pitcher, Towmotor, and others. They may have owned Towmotor for a while until it became Royal.

Yes, I did confuse Samsung and Sumitomo. My humble apologies.

Think you're also confusing your ideas with facts. Skid steers? No. Excavators? Not in the last 20 years, which coincidentally seems to be when you last learned anything. Perkins all UNF? Apart from the last versions of the 3.152 (last off the line nearly 10 years ago) all metric, except for flywheel bolts and head bolts on some ranges. Don't know which machines the etc. etc. are, but in Wes's world anything seems possible.

 

[Wes J]

Perkins all UNF? Apart from the last versions of the 3.152 (last off the line nearly 10 years ago) all metric, except for flywheel bolts and head bolts on some ranges.

OK, so after what, 50 years of making everything UNF for no ****ing reason, they fell in line with the rest of world? That's a real commitment to innovation.

 

[Wes J]

Excavators? Not in the last 20 years, which coincidentally seems to be when you last learned anything.

Wonderful. Here is a video of a Cat 320E. It's brand new and being sold in the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If7HFqZ1Z_Q

This machine is built by Shin Caterpillar Mitsubishi in Japan. This company is a joint venture between Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Caterpillar.

 

[Wes J]

Think you're also confusing your ideas with facts. Skid steers? No.

Find me a rubber tire Cat skid steer with a Cat motor. I'll be waiting.

 

[bteigrob]

I think we all need to check out theChive. About 1 hour ago John posted the link "There are sexy chivers amoung us" with 84 photos. might take the tension out of the room for a moment lol

 

[ih100]

Wonderful. Here is a video of a Cat 320E. It's brand new and being sold in the US.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If7HFqZ1Z_Q

This machine is built by Shin Caterpillar Mitsubishi in Japan. This company is a joint venture between Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Caterpillar.

Shin Caterpillar Mitsubishi was renamed Caterpillar Japan Ltd in early 2012. There is nothing Mitsubishi on that 320 E other than possibly a few components from a shared supplier. Keep digging

Oh, did you think the little Japanese stickers in the cab say Mitsubishi? Easy mistake.

 

[ih100]

OK, so after what, 50 years of making everything UNF for no ****ing reason, they fell in line with the rest of world? That's a real commitment to innovation.

Yep, you've got me there. The real hallmark of a Neanderthal company - UNF bolts. The engines must be shocking if they used - gasp -UNF threads. You the man, Wes.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

To get back to one of the gripes . . . what exactly is the issue with UNF?

I always associate fine threads with precision, holding power, and providing somewhat better tolerance to vibration.

Over the years I have worked with (and had spanners and wrenches for) Whitworth, the National series, and now the abomination of metric with a fine and coarse pitch threads and seemingly no standard size for nuts and bolt heads.

Sure, I realise there is a metric standard but I have never bothered to figure it out . . . for the work I do these days metric wrenches in one mill increments get me by on most jobs.

Fine thread in any flavour can cross thread easier than coarse but I suggest anyone who gets their knickers in a knot about fine thread on a Perkins should work on certain Aero engines or perhaps a big 1940's vintage Meadows diesel which have hundreds of small fine thread fasteners holding inspection covers and so forth.

On a slightly humorous note . . . the biggest issue I had with threads was the closeness between half inch NC and Whitworth.

In the scrub we had a constant threat of fire in the belly gaurds and it was an advantage to have the floorplate bolts free turning and well lubricated for quick removal.

I remember on one occasion at a service giving a feller a box of new one by half bolts and asking him to fit them after running a tap through all the holes . . . he came back later and reckoned they were tight and I realised he'd tapped all the holes to Whitworth. (big grin)

 

[Wes J]

As far as I know, the fine thread fasteners is a hold over from the old piston aircraft engines. As you say they can be better at withstanding vibrations and in the right material, can be stronger. There is nothing wrong with it. It just takes longer to take apart or put together and sourcing replacement fasteners can be difficult, though not as difficult as Witworth.

It's not wrong, it's just different for no real reason.

 

[Wes J]

Shin Caterpillar Mitsubishi was renamed Caterpillar Japan Ltd in early 2012. There is nothing Mitsubishi on that 320 E other than possibly a few components from a shared supplier. Keep digging

Oh, did you think the little Japanese stickers in the cab say Mitsubishi? Easy mistake.

Holy **** what is your deal?

Mitsubishi was involved in that venture for 40 years. Should we just write all of those machines off? If Cat buys out a joint venture with Mitsubishi, do those machines cease being Mitsubishi? Nothing has changed except the paperwork.

Like I tried to say before, if a Cat machine is made in Japan by a company that is 50% owned by Mitsubishi, is it a Cat or a Mitsubishi? If you buy a Deere hoe with a 100% Hitachi undercarriage bolted to a US made machine, is it a Deere or a Hitachi?

By your logic, there is no such thing as Perkins anymore, so you can stop pissing and moaning about it. It's all Caterpillar now.

I understand that you are 100% determined to be "right", but you're acting like a petty child.