Why was CAT's 5000 Series discontinued?

[Mass-X]

Does anyone know the reason for CAT discontinuing the 5000 series of excavators/shovels? Could they not compete with Komatsu's line of hydraulic shovel/excavators (PC1800+)?

The market for large excavators is growing around here as development is maxing out in the valleys and moving into the mountains. Several companies that run 100% CAT equipment are purchasing Hitachi 1100's, and Komatsu PC1800's. Not to mention numerous companies running 385's where they admit they should be running a larger machine; they just don't want to have to go with Komatsu or Hitachi to get a larger (new) machine. Many of these aforementioned companies will only purchase new machines (some Union deal) which precludes them from getting a used 5110 or 5130.

There would be a strong market for 5110's and 5130's around here, so I'm curious what CAT's reasons were for discontinuing the line?

 

[Cat420]

http://sec.edgar-online.com/2003/07/01/0000018230-03-000274/Section2.asp

Cat bought the electric drive truck division from Terex and Terex bought the 5000 series excavators from Cat.

 

[Mass-X]

Thank you very much, that's what I was looking for.

 

[Wulf]

Every picture tells a story

Komatsu truck driver pulled ahead too quickly maybe?

 

[Tigerotor77W]

Ah yes, but what about this?

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3095/is_7_96/ai_112655061

As I understand it, the deal fell through -- this isn't really entirely substantiated, but I know none of the dealers I've worked with sell O&K shovels (in the States, anyhow).

I think there's also a business reason Cat wanted to exit the business. Designing the largest forgings -- those that went on the 5230B -- must have been absolutely expensive, so needless to say, deciding that it wasn't even worth a look must have had some additional consequences that made it a better move than continuing to stay on.

 

[Wulf]

http://sec.edgar-online.com/2003/07/01/0000018230-03-000274/Section2.asp

Cat bought the electric drive truck division from Terex and Terex bought the 5000 series excavators from Cat.

I heard that Caterpillar had some relationship with Terex/O&K
to market the O&K shovels through the Caterpillar distribution network:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2004_August_16/ai_n6162872

So wouldn't this mean that Cat dealers still have a big shovel line?

 

[Cat420]

I hadn't heard about the deal breaking up. I guess the only certainty is that Cat was looking to get rid of the shovels. Whether or not they were able to exchange them for something else of value, I have no idea now.

 

[KSSS]

The market for those machines would have to be very small. Considering that Komatsu and Hitachi are also well represented in that market it may not have penciled out for CAT. I don't think that the 5000 series was their best excavator based on what I have read.

 

[Big Shovels]

5000 Series are Junk

Cat did not trade Terex for their line of electric drive trucks. Cat's new line of electric drive trucks is powered by a Mitsubishi electric drive system. Cat and Mitsubishi have had a relationship for a long time as all Cat Construction Size Excavators use Mitsubishi engines.

The 5000 series of shovels was probably the biggest diaster Cat ever had on their hands. Those shovels were very unreliable and the picture shown in the thread above in no way was caused by the truck leaving too soon. First the truck is not even loaded so why would he pull away. The biggest problem with those shovel was as shown in the picture the upper structure would pull away from the undercarriage.

Also if you want a very reliable mining class machine you should go with Hitachi. Hitachi is the worldwide leader in market share in mining excavator size of equipment. If you talk to anyone who knows anything about mining they will tell you Hitachi makes the most productive and cost effective machine.

 

[CascadeScaper]

Is Terex/O&K still in the mining shovel picture? I don't know much about the mining scene, but from what I've read it sounds like Hitachi builds a nice shovel.

 

[Big Shovels]

Terex/O&K is definitely still in the mining picture and they make an ok shovel. I would say Komatsu and Hitachi make the best mining shovel and then Terex/O&K would be a couple tiers below that. They will definitely be in a better position now as more Cat dealers are starting to pick up the O&K shovel line. I know Finning is the first Cat dealer to get the contract.

 

[Wulf]

...the picture shown in the thread above in no way was caused by the truck leaving too soon. First the truck is not even loaded so why would he pull away

Sorry that was an attempt at humor and just to poke a bit of fun at the Cat lovers here...
I have to agree with you on the big Hitachis, they are certainly built to survive by being over-engineered in many ways.

 

[MetalDragon_boy]

My favorite is Komatsu. Although I have never driven one so I only go by looks.

 

[MMSOCAL]

ripped track body

Cat did not trade Terex for their line of electric drive trucks. Cat's new line of electric drive trucks is powered by a Mitsubishi electric drive system. Cat and Mitsubishi have had a relationship for a long time as all Cat Construction Size Excavators use Mitsubishi engines.

The 5000 series of shovels was probably the biggest diaster Cat ever had on their hands. Those shovels were very unreliable and the picture shown in the thread above in no way was caused by the truck leaving too soon. First the truck is not even loaded so why would he pull away. The biggest problem with those shovel was as shown in the picture the upper structure would pull away from the undercarriage.

Also if you want a very reliable mining class machine you should go with Hitachi. Hitachi is the worldwide leader in market share in mining excavator size of equipment. If you talk to anyone who knows anything about mining they will tell you Hitachi makes the most productive and cost effective machine.

I 100% agree, i worked for a southern california contactor with a 5130 where the turn table ripped, not cracked ripped. That machine never ran for more than 2 weeks without a break down of 1 full day or more, and about 2 months between major break downs, i think our mechanics spent more time in it than the operators. Also a flawed hydraulic system is a problem, for some reason if you blow a hydraulic line below the tank the whole tank drains out, and at 300 + gals thats a epa issue.:usa

 

[345cl]

when we had our 345 delivered to us last year i was talking with the head of sales for cat down here and we got on to the topic of the 5000 series shovels,he was telling me that there going to drop the line of shovel dew to the high cost and fabrication of the shovels and just the enginerring going into these hovels were a nghtmare,they had some seriuos problems with these big shovels he also told me,so he pointed out that cat would propably stay away from this altogther its better to build what you know and can handle,

 

[RKO]

Cat Sales person told me, that Cat could not compete with Hitachi and Komatsu in this size machine. Cats per cent of sales was not large enough. Cat machines were not as reliable as the others and Mines/Contractors just were not buying them like Cat wanted. Also cost of production, research was larger than Cat wanted for per cent of sales.

 

[ZX850]

5000 series discontinued

Cat had lots of trouble with this product line coupled with poor production (cycle times hyd issues and lots of downtime). Most anyone who owned a 5000 series machine can tell a horror story or two....they are like terex scrapers you always need to have two to keep productivity up...one to run while the other is down. Nevertheless, Cat was at a point where the R&D costs to develop a competitive product were too high to justify continuing the line. Besides Hitachi is running at over 60% market share worldwide for mining shovels and excavators....the rest of the pie is shared by O&K/Terex and Komatsu/Demag. Hitachi is definitely ahead of the curve on reliability and durability with very few manufacturers able to keep up....there are a few good machines out there besides Hitachi....but they are one in a hundred.

Just my few thoughts:beatsme

 

[16H]

Dont know much about the 5000 series Cats but Cat has some arrangement with Terex o&k as the new RH340b has a Cat engine option, I know of an Rh120e that is Cat powred from the factory

 

[lumber61]

CAT in all sales divisions (ie:Excavators,wheel loaders, mini-ex etc.) wants at least a 20% market share. They can usually obtain this by throwing money into the market but with this size of machine and this market size being very small, they could see the writing on the wall.

 

[wayne 87th]

Anyone have an update on who Cat is teaming up with now that they have confirmed they will be getting into the large shovel business? It seems they will be hunting in the EX8000 / PC8000 range at their biggest pieces.