Why dont you use a Rototilt?

[CM1995]

Could also be due to the operator knowing how to operate a given machine in different environments .

Yep. Also you can't unhook the rototilt from the excavator, put it on a tag behind my pickup and go do little grading job...

Diff'nt strokes, diff'nt folks.

 

[td25c]

Well said CM .

I was on a ditch job last week and while on a long ditch a feller has time to ponder & think ................

From my understanding the Rototilt seems to be made for more intricate type work similar to what 245dlc was doing on the golf course . Saves him paying an extra man raking dirt off the sod .

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...use-a-Rototilt&p=560471&viewfull=1#post560471

Be careful out there 245dlc & wear a hard hat for the stray golf balls .

For myself I cant see ever needing such an attachment . It pretty much boils down to buy an expensive attachment or hop out of the cab to do a little hand labor .

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?8220-Old-Hy-Hoe&p=560939&viewfull=1#post560939

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . . Guday fellers.

This is an entertaining discussion . . . most of the discussions on this board are for that matter.

I'm poking my bib in again on an excavator thread, in an area outside my experience but, I think this just comes down to evolution. I wonder how many of you folks would buy a small finish dozer these days with out a six way blade?

I can remember spreading topsoil on sand batters with a straight bladed little Allis that only had manual tilt.

As I see it, in the metropolitan markets the industry has accepted tilt and twist and six way blades as standard.

As I mentioned upthread, without a tilt and twist on the excavator or a sixway on the finish Cat. you couldn't quote competitively on bid work and unless you rates were very low on hourly hire you would find it difficult to get a job.

This is not so much in regional areas of course and there is still a fair bit of older gear around.

Cheers.

 

[alco]

Thats explains quite alot... most americans complain that the rototilt is too expensive but then needs to have the exavator teamed up with a dozer or skidloader to do the same work as a wheel-exavator with a rototilt+5-10 buckets and it can move between worksites without the need of transport.

I'm just curious, how do you move those 5-10 buckets around to have them with you at different worksites?

 

[JDOFMEMI]

I will join in here.

The way I see it, it largely depends on the type of work you are doing, and the market you work in, to determine if one of these is worthwhile.

I see the biggest advantage in places with high labor rates, as you are really just replacing added labor with an expensive tool. The cost of the replaced labor determines how long the payoff is on the tool. I could see these showing up on freeway projects and other high profile jobs, especially where there is limited room for additional machines.
Large building sites may be another place where they make some penetration into the market.
For me, I could see several places where I could use one, but not with anywhere near the utilization it would take to spend the money on one new. If there comes a deal on the used market that may do, but my small excavator is a 330 Cat, and they are pricey, especially for the limited use.

I am sure that over time they will come to be accepted, then demanded more and more, but it will take time. Remember it has not been that long ago that quick couplers were a novelty that few wanted to pay for, now it would be hard to market a rental excavator without one.

The other thing I think of is that having a rototilt enables one excavator to do work normally done by other machines. Those other machines may be better, like the example of the grading tractor spreading the topsoil better than the gradall in the video, but by having the rototilt, the one machine can stay busy more often, and the quickest way to improve the return on investment of a machine is to increase its utilization.

 

[Tones]

Totally agree Jerry you'd never fit one to a bulk out machine. Where they come into there own is doing final trim and or confined area work plus they are more reliable than a labourer who doesn't turn up for work.

 

[245dlc]

I'm just curious, how do you move those 5-10 buckets around to have them with you at different worksites?

Many owner/operator outfits on that side of the pond have a little dump trailer they pull behind their duck (rubber-tire excavator) where they park their buckets and attachments when moving from job to job.

 

[td25c]

Yep. Also you can't unhook the rototilt from the excavator, put it on a tag behind my pickup and go do little grading job...

Diff'nt strokes, diff'nt folks.

Or unhook the rototilt & have it clean out under the excavator so some knucklehead can replace a blown hydraulic hose . LOL !

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?8220-Old-Hy-Hoe&p=562657&viewfull=1#post562657

 

[td25c]

I think tilt-rotator's are really more for owner/operator outfits where the guy operating it is also the guy paying for it and therefore taking care of it. I do like them and I think one will be in my future.

Hey 245dlc . Nice work on the golf coarse job !

Noticed the sod in the sidewalk path was pre cut . Made for a tidy job in the end .:thumbsup

Have you ever thought about mounting corn planter opener disk blades on a bucket so it would cut the sod just ahead of the cutting edge of the bucket , similar to a plow .

Just a random thought .

http://www.sloanex.com/osmundson-heavy-duty-15-planter-seed-disc-opener-blade-for-xp-row-units.html

 

[245dlc]

Hey 245dlc . Nice work on the golf coarse job !

Noticed the sod in the sidewalk path was pre cut . Made for a tidy job in the end .:thumbsup

Have you ever thought about mounting corn planter opener disk blades on a bucket so it would cut the sod just ahead of the cutting edge of the bucket , similar to a plow .

Just a random thought .

http://www.sloanex.com/osmundson-heavy-duty-15-planter-seed-disc-opener-blade-for-xp-row-units.html

It wasn't my machine TD25C I'm just an operator. With that being said maybe in a year or two I could strike out on my own as for now my wife and I are working on moving somewhere a lot more progressive than this province.

 

[AusDave]

I'm just curious, how do you move those 5-10 buckets around to have them with you at different worksites?

A lot of rubber duck/wheeled excavator operators have a large full width bucket/tray arrangement that hooks over the top of the blade. When they get to a job just unhook and park the gear, select your tool and get to work.
If there's room and you want to take your attachments with you, just leave it on the blade and swap tools as you go. This is even cooler if you have one of the oil quip type hitches where you don't need to get out of the machine to attach hydraulic attachments such as vibrating compactors and grabs.

AusDave

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

A little of topic but thought this may be of interest.

A different way shifting muck around a site. These trailers are common with wheeled excavators, I saw two in use on a recent trip away but I have never seen one used with tracks.

Note there is no hydraulics on the tip, they just grab that piece of rope with a tooth . . . as folks have said on here different strokes. (Photo was from the net)




Cheers

 

[Snowcraft97]

Or a backhoe... but there is also a reason why guys say backhoe's are the worst of 2 machines. haha For the price of a rototilt and all the buckets I could have a pretty nice CTL that will grade fast or faster than a wheeled excavator, what do you do when you need to get in a wet area?

Well a backhoe here in sweden is diffrent, it almost comes standard with even more buckets and a rototilt (Huddig 1260C is a typical swedish backhoe) and in a wet place u use a normal tracked exavator.

 

[Tones]

This topic has jogged the old memory bank. About 30yrs ago Komatsu in New Zealand where trying to sell a PC220 that had continuous rotating dipper arm. I tried it out a machinery show and could see some good possibilities for working in confined areas. Soon after that I did a job where I had to excavate around a lot of concrete piles with a lazy cursing labour trying not to help. I got to thinking about that PC220 and how easy the job would have been with it. Many years later I saw the same machine parked in the Komatsu yard in Melbourne, Australia and it had never found a home. Wonder where it is now?

 

[nedly05]

How do these things hold up in Stoney conditions or wrestling large boulders?

 

[pafarmer]

How do these things hold up in Stoney conditions or wrestling large boulders?

They perform real well and I have actually realized better wear on my rototilt equipped machines over standard fixed type bucket arrangements. You are more versatile in placement and actually manipulation and you don't force it as much as you do when using a fixed bucket. No worries with use and wear , the cost is high and a specific use is required to justify the expense. We have been doing stream reclamation all summer and could never do the quality of work required by contract without the rototilt units at the end of the stick.

 

[nedly05]

Thanks pafarmer! What machine do you have it on? Any pics? How do they set the controls up?

 

[pafarmer]

Thanks pafarmer! What machine do you have it on? Any pics? How do they set the controls up?

I have them on three 2015 312E blade runners with steel tracks. I choose the 312E for there small size and maneuverability. The contracts we are presently working call for very detailed small stream reclamation work. These streams are very tight, small trout type streams that pass through rural farmland with Engineered Detaled Riprap placement, water bars etc. the controls are basic cat controls. The 3 machines were delivered setup and ready to go with the rototilt heads install, calibrated and ready to go so I can talk to how they may differ from the standard. I presently don't have any pictures to show but I can get a few for you in the next few days. I'm sure there are some on the ole Interweb somewhere. The rototilt units are very salty in terms of cost but for the work we are presently doing I could not do it without them. All that being said I got along fine without one for many many years in general contracting work. Very handy tools that allow for very detailed work that one really needs to justify very closely prior to spending the large coin on one...
Hope this helps in some small way...

 

[nedly05]

It helps a lot! I'm considering one in the 5 ton size. I got a price of $26k+/- to go on my Kubota 121. My Kubota salesman had never heard of them and when I showed him he quickly said it wasn't rugged enough for the work I do. I've done quite a bit of research, reading, watching videos etc and I haven't heard anything bad yet. I read somewhere that cat offers it as an option? Can't find it on the cat site though. Ultimately I'd like to have 2 buckets and a grapple, that was included in the price I got. We do a lot of grading, road maintenance, culvert installs, underground utilities, land clearing and boulder walls. Seems like it could be a great weapon for the arsenal,

 

[AusDave]

How do these things hold up in Stoney conditions or wrestling large boulders?

The major brands of Rototilts such as Engcon etc come from Scandinavian countries where they frequently work with rocks and frozen ground. They will often outlast one or more carrier machines. I think the cost is due to the quality and durability of construction.

AusDave