Tile stringing trailer

[JBGASH]

We are building a tandem walking axle tile stringing trailer, anyone have input or pictures of ones that you may have built.

 

[Construct'O]

I bought this one ,but was one of the first ones on the market homebuilt back when

Had the long tongue for when i use to pull it around with big four wheel tractor with small backhoe on it.So the backhoe wouldn't get into the trailer.Just had it bolted into the short tongue on the trailer.Is removed now.

Can't see the best but the rollers under the tilt platform was used from like an old converyor belt rollers.Works great and doesn't have a brake to slow or stop the reel from turning to fast.Good luck

 

[JBGASH]

Looks like a nice outfit, if I am understanding you right the rollers are also braking the turntable just enough to keep the tile from unspooling. I like the idea of being able to pull the rig with the compact loader also.

 

[watglen]

Here's a topic that is near and dear to my heart.

I built one last year, and it has been a work in progress ever since. There are so many things that have done right that you don't think of till it becomes obvious out in the field. One small thing and the whole rig is unusable.

I will take some pics of mine and pm you to discuss.

 

[Steve Frazier]

watglen, it appears you put the tile directly in the soil with no gravel. Don't the tiles clog without a sock on them? Just curious.

 

[CM1995]

watglen, it appears you put the tile directly in the soil with no gravel. Don't the tiles clog without a sock on them? Just curious.

Same question here. I am not familiar at all with the field tile and understand the purpose to a degree, anyone care to educate us folks a little more about it?

 

[Construct'O]

Here only use sock on tile if sandy which we have very little sandy conditions.Black dirt and coarse clay and no not that red clay.Ours grows corn and soybeans not peanuts.

They also make some tile that has a different slot (finer,smaller) for the water to enter the tile that is also used here for the sandy spots actually works better then the sock tile.Sock tile seals over here with time.

Steve and CM the tile and gravel backfill thing is more a UK thing.Altho there is tight soils here that doesn't perk the best,but the cost to backfill with gravel is out of the question.Just backfill with what comes out of the trench goes back into the trench.Then it settles which will need some attention later.Ususally just disk in old trench come spring this time of the year after it settle before planting next spring.

 

[CM1995]

Black dirt and coarse clay and no not that red clay.Ours grows corn and soybeans not peanuts.

Thank you for the info. We mostly have red clay, topsoil and rock. There's not a lot of farming in my area, what is grown is either soybeans or cotton and I haven't seen or heard of anyone installing this type of drainage but I'm also not in the farming industry. Interesting stuff, I always like to learn how things are done in different areas.

 

[JBGASH]

In corn , soybean & wheat production, tiling is done to dry up wet spots and seaps that send excess water to the upper profile of the soil. For example these wet spots can reduce corn yields in the wet spot area as much as 150 plus bushels per acre, in addition the fertilizer and chemicals are lost also on the wet spot. In severe wet spots, 0 yield can be the outcome. With corn production operating costs per acre running appox. $500.00 / acre plus or minus; these wet spots are very costly in all ways.

 

[westerveld]

watglen, it appears you put the tile directly in the soil with no gravel. Don't the tiles clog without a sock on them? Just curious.

On our farm we've found that sock tile doesn't work well in fields with clay. The clay seams to smear over the sock when it's wet. We've gone back into the field a few years later to dig up the tile in wet spots and cut off the sock to actually get water to drain.

 

[watglen]

Steve, I think you have your answer. Thanks guys.

Sock is kinda tricky. I personally have never seen it plug, but I have learned to expect anything. I have seen non-sock plugged solid with sand to the point where the water was bubbling up out of the ground, traveling overland 20' and then dropping backing down to the tile again. Dug it up, it was solid with beach sand.

Back to the stringer

Here is my original design

http://youtu.be/CX0wmON4bXw

This rig is mounted on my dozer blade now.

http://youtu.be/crniaEPL-SY

Lessons I have learned.

1) Design it in such a way that the table raises as it tilts. The table is mounted on a long arm that lifts up and over. This way, the table rail clears the ground, and you can get away from the more common folding table idea, where you have to disassemble the table to load it.

2) You need the posts to keep the tile on the table. Rather, to help it back up onto the table after it falls off. With 4 round posts at the 4 corners, the tile can un-spool lots and it will still climb back onto the table when you pull on it. Without the posts, you have to leave the cab when the tile falls off the table.

3) Tile rolls are about 8' in diameter until you cut the strings. After that, it grows to 12' in diameter pretty quick. I added 4' diameter to mine. Without that extra space, the tile falls down and quickly gets wedged into those posts.

4) Build it heavy enough so that you can set the rail into dirt, and back up. Expect to abuse the hell out of it, especially when loading.

5) I used a 8000# rated axle, actually called a tandem tube. I would go heavier the next time. Be careful how you weld it, cuz it will break at the weld if done improperly( all these points have been learned the hard way)

6) If you mount it on the front of something, expect it to be bashed around pretty good. My dozer throws it around like a flag in the wind.

7)I had good luck by using a hyd control valve that has travel stops on the spools. I have slowed the cylinder down to dead slow, so the cylinder doesn't thrash it around so much with rapid movement.

8) I used a 3" solid pivot shaft for the table to lift/tilt on. That seems sturdy enough, but the 1" pin the cylinder pushes on isn't. The connection between the lever arm and round shaft has gotten really sloppy on mine, needs to be redesigned.

9) Don't overbuild the spider on top of the pole, it is damned heavy at the end of a long day. Not having one is a huge mistake.

10) My center post is in two pcs, so i can take it off when floating. Also, make the post extra long so you have plenty of length to mount the spider. This just makes life easier in the field.

11) Building it strong will create more rotational momentum, This makes it harder to get spinning, and harder to stop. Mine uses a cylinder to push a rubber block against the flat underside of the table. Works pretty well. Any brake design that doesn't actively disengage will likely stick, creating stretched tile. Not good.

12) Although my table is a bit bowl shaped, it should likely be completely flat. I find sometimes the pipe gets pinched at the spot where the table angles up. Would be better if the table was flat. Also, mine is based on a spoke arrangement, but I find that the weight of the spool sitting on those spokes can sometimes dent the pipe a little. Mine could use a little more material to support the weight to help protect the pipe.

13) Design to keep tolerances loose, provide room for the table to flex, twist, etc. If you build it to compact, and things get a little bent during use, you will be stopped.

And just so we don't stop at 13,

14) Make sure you incorporate someplace to carry parts ( couplers, end caps, knives, string)

That should give you some things to think about anyway, have fun.


Ken

ps, The best current design uses 3pt hitch, not wheels. Tractor rides lots smoother over rough ground (tile runs) than a small wheeled trailer. Pounding over rough ground at speed is what destroys commercial tile stringers.

 

[JBGASH]

Ken, Thanks!! for those tips, I have the trailer frame built now and attached to the axle. I will use all your ideas as I build further. One question, what is the height of your table from the ground to where the tile sits?

Steve, I think you have your answer. Thanks guys.

Sock is kinda tricky. I personally have never seen it plug, but I have learned to expect anything. I have seen non-sock plugged solid with sand to the point where the water was bubbling up out of the ground, traveling overland 20' and then dropping backing down to the tile again. Dug it up, it was solid with beach sand.

Back to the stringer

Here is my original design

http://youtu.be/CX0wmON4bXw

This rig is mounted on my dozer blade now.

http://youtu.be/crniaEPL-SY

Lessons I have learned.

1) Design it in such a way that the table raises as it tilts. The table is mounted on a long arm that lifts up and over. This way, the table rail clears the ground, and you can get away from the more common folding table idea, where you have to disassemble the table to load it.

2) You need the posts to keep the tile on the table. Rather, to help it back up onto the table after it falls off. With 4 round posts at the 4 corners, the tile can un-spool lots and it will still climb back onto the table when you pull on it. Without the posts, you have to leave the cab when the tile falls off the table.

3) Tile rolls are about 8' in diameter until you cut the strings. After that, it grows to 12' in diameter pretty quick. I added 4' diameter to mine. Without that extra space, the tile falls down and quickly gets wedged into those posts.

4) Build it heavy enough so that you can set the rail into dirt, and back up. Expect to abuse the hell out of it, especially when loading.

5) I used a 8000# rated axle, actually called a tandem tube. I would go heavier the next time. Be careful how you weld it, cuz it will break at the weld if done improperly( all these points have been learned the hard way)

6) If you mount it on the front of something, expect it to be bashed around pretty good. My dozer throws it around like a flag in the wind.

7)I had good luck by using a hyd control valve that has travel stops on the spools. I have slowed the cylinder down to dead slow, so the cylinder doesn't thrash it around so much with rapid movement.

8) I used a 3" solid pivot shaft for the table to lift/tilt on. That seems sturdy enough, but the 1" pin the cylinder pushes on isn't. The connection between the lever arm and round shaft has gotten really sloppy on mine, needs to be redesigned.

9) Don't overbuild the spider on top of the pole, it is damned heavy at the end of a long day. Not having one is a huge mistake.

10) My center post is in two pcs, so i can take it off when floating. Also, make the post extra long so you have plenty of length to mount the spider. This just makes life easier in the field.

11) Building it strong will create more rotational momentum, This makes it harder to get spinning, and harder to stop. Mine uses a cylinder to push a rubber block against the flat underside of the table. Works pretty well. Any brake design that doesn't actively disengage will likely stick, creating stretched tile. Not good.

12) Although my table is a bit bowl shaped, it should likely be completely flat. I find sometimes the pipe gets pinched at the spot where the table angles up. Would be better if the table was flat. Also, mine is based on a spoke arrangement, but I find that the weight of the spool sitting on those spokes can sometimes dent the pipe a little. Mine could use a little more material to support the weight to help protect the pipe.

13) Design to keep tolerances loose, provide room for the table to flex, twist, etc. If you build it to compact, and things get a little bent during use, you will be stopped.

And just so we don't stop at 13,

14) Make sure you incorporate someplace to carry parts ( couplers, end caps, knives, string)

That should give you some things to think about anyway, have fun.


Ken

ps, The best current design uses 3pt hitch, not wheels. Tractor rides lots smoother over rough ground (tile runs) than a small wheeled trailer. Pounding over rough ground at speed is what destroys commercial tile stringers.

 

[watglen]

JBGASH, the height of the table is variable cuz its on the blade now.

But I would say its around 42".

The height in the lowered position is less important the the height in the raised position. If you mount the vertical spindle on an arm, and pivot the arm forward of the spindle, the table will raise as it tilts forward. You can adjust how high it goes by adjusting the length of the arm. ( when i say forward, i mean toward the direction of tilt. For a towed stringer, everything is reversed because the table tilts rearward. Nuf said)

Just make sure the table tilts up so the perimeter of the table is well above the ground when its raised. You can tilt it past vertical to bring the tip of the spear back down close to the ground to get low enough to stab the tile roll. You want to be able to drive into the tile roll without dragging the table through the dirt ( and bending it to crap)

In your case, you just have to build it high enough for everything to clear the wheels.

Here is a screen shot of my acad drawing

 

[Construct'O]

On top of the platform of the tile reel if you use square tubing for braces in your circle,it is a good idea to either plate it with thin tin like on my old trailer or use the hard plastic sheets and cut them to fit over the stinger.When the platform is down and your backing into the a roll of tile the maxi roll of tile will get dinged up from the braces in the bottom of the circle.

Also you need to always but the top reel on top of the tile or on a windy day like today the top rings of tile well get blowed over the top of the roll and it will kink the tubing and you have to cut the tile and straighten the tubing and put a coupler in it.Good luck

 

[JBGASH]

Here are a few pics of our progress on the tile trailer, not as simple to do as I originally thought. I am basically building it out of material and scrap that I had laying around and only buying what I have to. The 1/2" thick large round piece of steel has a wheel hub mounted to it that I found in a salvage yard, it will be the turn table and will weld directly on the 2 top cross rails on the frame.

 

[watglen]

Fun fun fun!

 

[Randy88]

Somehow I missed this whole thread, not sure how you guys are coming with your trailers, but I've done a few myself, make sure you have the tower pipe tower closer to the ground than just level when you go to pick up the tile, mine will pivot till the top of the tower will almost touch the ground. As for a spindle bearing I use semi trailer axles and also the brake and hub assembly for a positive stop mechanism. Walking beam tandems are the only way to go, mounted stringers are nice, till the tractor's buried in the mud, and the stringer's hung up, then the fun starts, with a trailer mounted stringer, we unhook the stringer and pull the tractor or dozer out first, then use cables to go after the trailer. There have been a few times when we tile around the tractor and stringer and go back a few days later to get them both out after its dried a little, same goes for the trencher.

I also weld shafts on the bottom of the walking beam tandems, so when its buried in the mud, the tandems can't literally roll over and wedge under the stringer table and lock up, my shafts only allow the tandems to walk a certain amount of up and down movement, a huge improvement over those trailers that don't have them installed. We also have the walking beams longer than most allowing more distance between the tires for mud clearance, most commercial units the tires are too close together and when mud packed the tires won't turn at all, that's usually about the time the tandems will try to roll over and lock up under the tower table causing the table to stop turning, something that causes more cursing than anyone can imagine.

We also make the tongue assembly longer so we can hook several stringers together with the tables unfolded and string tile when two or more stringers are hooked together, saves unhooking stringers to run short lines of a different size tile.

My walking beams are also held on with a shaft, that we can spin with a pipe wrench and each pivot point has a zerk, if for some reason something won't take grease, we unbolt the shaft and take it out, nothing has to be cut apart, nothing any commercially made unit can claim.

Your axles or tires, make them as wide a stance and possible, legal width is 8 foot six inches with the table folded up, my trailers are also 8 foot six inches wide measured at the outside of the tires, the wider the better, makes the unit more stable and harder to tip over, and yes, we've tipped them over plenty of times, the narrow wheel based trailers are on their sides more than they are standing upright, if one side goes down into the mud and the other one is high and dry ground, they'll tip over faster than anything you can imagine, same goes for bouncing over frozen chiseled plowed ground diagonally, another reason I like walking beam tandems, the single axle trailers are always laid over at some point during the week.

Make your main frame heavy enough to pull from anywhere, once its buried in the mud, we've yanked main frames out from under some trailers in the past, most are not meant to be pulled from anywhere but the hitch pin, mine can be pulled from anywhere, including one stringer to pull another out of the mud, we back up with one stringer and use chains or cables to pull another out of the mud backwards, sideways or whatever it takes to get the job done.

 

[JBGASH]

Tile trailer

Here is my tile trailer we built last winter, it was a bigger job than it looked after we got into it. We added removable bolt on brackets on the turntable to use for unrolling HDPE gas line and poly water service line up to 2" as well as all sizes of SDS drainage tile.

 

[Randy88]

I'd make the suggestion of putting pipes up off the main frame so the tile doesn't spin off the front and you drive it over as you go, it helps kick the tile to the side as you string it out so the stringer doesn't drive over it. If your main frame isn't very wide, we lay a 2x4 tube down first cross ways across the tongue, then run the upright pipes off of that so the pipes are even with or slightly wider than the tires on the stringer, google any of the maxi stringers made commercially to see them, but most are too close together to work really good, a few don't have any on at all.

Some mount a cage made out of cattle panel material in the tongue under the table to hold fittings, we slip fittings over the upright pipes I just mentioned and don't have baskets under the table, we have a basket we pull behind the four wheeler for fittings, shovels and what not's.

Great looking trailer by the way, not sure how many you have, but you never have enough stringers around is my thought.