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651 Elevating Scrapers

ronsmith

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Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
4
Location
bunbury west australia
Designed and built by Albert and Colin Piacentini

2 Units of 651B were made and 5 from 651 E's. The original machine in the photo was made from a cat 651B scraper and Wabco 353ft bowel in the late 1980's. The scraper was repowered with a KT19 Cummins engine and operated for approximately 70,000 hours. The 651E units are still in service and carry 50T payload. The bowls were custom modified by Piacentini & Sons. Also they hold the record for biggest elevated scraper.
 

Gavin84w

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Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
554
Location
Australia
Cat made what was effectively a 653 elevating scraper back in the 60,s, was only ever a prototype but it was made.
 

rare ss

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Apr 1, 2011
Messages
460
Location
Western Australia
Piacentini's do some good things on their scrapers, the D4 track chains and piviot type adjusters are a huge improvement over the factory 633D & 639D design, and as for the 633E elevators they went backwards from the D's as it was
 

Davvinciman

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Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Messages
82
Location
So. California
Occupation
Operating engineer and business owner
Designed and built by Albert and Colin Piacentini

2 Units of 651B were made and 5 from 651 E's. The original machine in the photo was made from a cat 651B scraper and Wabco 353ft bowel in the late 1980's. The scraper was repowered with a KT19 Cummins engine and operated for approximately 70,000 hours. The 651E units are still in service and carry 50T payload. The bowls were custom modified by Piacentini & Sons. Also they hold the record for biggest elevated scraper.
What? Next would be "Why"? Did they have a bunch of leftover machines and someone said, "Hey, I got a crazy idea I'll bet I can......". Was it an area that couldn't support a push-cat or was it mining? I know when you put people in dark places for too long they get some pretty strange ideas.
More DATA. And pics, too.....please?
 
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Gavin84w

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Mar 29, 2007
Messages
554
Location
Australia
In Western Australia where these guys work and a number of other large scraper operators there are a lot of mineral sands operations that lend themselves to elevating scrapers very well, some of these operations are on a huge scale so economies of scale come into play just like mining, which is effectively what is being done.

About 85% of all 639D scrapers ever built are in Western Australia and many many 633,s are still in use also.
 

Davvinciman

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Nov 29, 2011
Messages
82
Location
So. California
Occupation
Operating engineer and business owner
In Western Australia where these guys work and a number of other large scraper operators there are a lot of mineral sands operations that lend themselves to elevating scrapers very well, some of these operations are on a huge scale so economies of scale come into play just like mining, which is effectively what is being done.

About 85% of all 639D scrapers ever built are in Western Australia and many many 633,s are still in use also.
I knew those 639D's were hiding somewhere. I have never seen one though. And I live in a place that understands scale. I think it just struck my funnybone when you said they stuffed a big Cummins engine in a Cat frame (as in the engine had special pump set up on the rear) and then changed out the bowl for a Wabco? That just sounds bizarre. I would love a pic if there is one to be had. I've seen stretched 651's that were only stretched a foot. Seems like a lot of trouble to go through but all you can do is ask. I'm sure they don't just cut them up for fun but, who knows. Thanks for the info.
 

Brainzie

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Mar 22, 2010
Messages
112
Location
New Zealand
I knew those 639D's were hiding somewhere. I have never seen one though. And I live in a place that understands scale. I think it just struck my funnybone when you said they stuffed a big Cummins engine in a Cat frame (as in the engine had special pump set up on the rear) and then changed out the bowl for a Wabco? That just sounds bizarre. I would love a pic if there is one to be had. I've seen stretched 651's that were only stretched a foot. Seems like a lot of trouble to go through but all you can do is ask. I'm sure they don't just cut them up for fun but, who knows. Thanks for the info.

Look on page 12 of the wabco scrapers at work thread.
 

rare ss

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Messages
460
Location
Western Australia
In Western Australia where these guys work and a number of other large scraper operators there are a lot of mineral sands operations that lend themselves to elevating scrapers very well, some of these operations are on a huge scale so economies of scale come into play just like mining, which is effectively what is being done.

About 85% of all 639D scrapers ever built are in Western Australia and many many 633,s are still in use also.

I heard a rumer that there were very few 639D's built which seemed strange to me as their everywhere over here, they are a big favourate with civil engineering contractors for moving topsoil and bulk dirt around sub-divisions, with a good guy in the seat they shift some dirt very quick..

theres also alot of "made up" 639D's around using a 633D with a 37 back end, we also ran x2 "633G" machines which were a 631G tractor and a 633EII back end
 

Davvinciman

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82
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So. California
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Operating engineer and business owner
Why paddle-wheels?

I heard a rumer that there were very few 639D's built which seemed strange to me as their everywhere over here, they are a big favourate with civil engineering contractors for moving topsoil and bulk dirt around sub-divisions, with a good guy in the seat they shift some dirt very quick..

theres also alot of "made up" 639D's around using a 633D with a 37 back end, we also ran x2 "633G" machines which were a 631G tractor and a 633EII back end
Okay, so I love to see the new mix and match machines. I've always been the kind of guy that thought "if they didn't make it that doesn't mean I can't". And not going through the particulars of gooseneck strength or the cost of conversion, what is the love affair with self-loaders? And especially twin-engines? Unless you have a project that has a lot of uphill dirt, or you are trying to eliminate the cost of the push-cats, I can't see the need for twin engine self loader. We call them paddle-wheel scrapers here and we used to have fleets of the 633's running around but that gave way to moving the mass with 651 push spreads which is about the cheapest yardage movers you can find. The steeper uphill dirt or inaccessible cut is done by 57's or 37's depending on what rigs you could find available (which is just about anything right now).
I guess the question is, why paddle-wheels?
 

rare ss

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Apr 1, 2011
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460
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Western Australia
self load in soft sandy dirt, no need for a dozer or second push machine, one machine, one operator saves you $$$ I'm not a fan BTW i used to hate working on the POS
 

Davvinciman

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Nov 29, 2011
Messages
82
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So. California
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Operating engineer and business owner
self load in soft sandy dirt, no need for a dozer or second push machine, one machine, one operator saves you $$$ I'm not a fan BTW i used to hate working on the POS

Aw, c'mon now. Everything turns into a POS once the fun wears off. :Banghead (I knew I should have listened to my Dad)
The one thing we have a problem with here is that we have very strict air quality laws. Dust is pollution and when you are working a dirt job, if the wind blows dust, it's your fault. The fines are pretty stiff so when you have a machine that literally throws dirt (which always makes dust when it is dry), you always try and work in a little water to minimize the dust. Mostly if you are working in a residential area.
But we all know, anything is legal till you get caught.
 
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rare ss

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Western Australia
wow great link, thanks Ray, i wonder is if the rear motor would drive the rear wheels as per a 639D or just to run the elevators, so would it be a prototype 659 not a 653 or 657 as stated in the artical??
 

Gavin84w

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Mar 29, 2007
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554
Location
Australia
wow great link, thanks Ray, i wonder is if the rear motor would drive the rear wheels as per a 639D or just to run the elevators, so would it be a prototype 659 not a 653 or 657 as stated in the artical??

Cat built what they called a 659 which was a scraper with a belt loader hanging out the side and a D333 engine sitting up the top running it, it is pictured in Eric,s Caterpillar Chronicle book.
 

rare ss

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Apr 1, 2011
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460
Location
Western Australia
yeh, been awhile since i read that book.. that model was close to making it into production? that was one of my favorates of the book years ahead of its time considering the new trend of using surface miners
 

Gavin84w

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Mar 29, 2007
Messages
554
Location
Australia
Wasn't the 659 basically a self propelled version of a Holland loader?

Thats, probably a very good way to describe it.

Not sure if it came close to production rare, i would think most of those machines in "The good, The bad & The ugly" section of CC were never going to make it into production!
 

bigshow

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Jul 17, 2011
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Somewhere.
I just got that book out to refresh my memory of what that 659 looked like and seen the D57T's mommy. Forgot all about that unit, that type of ingenuity sure is impressive.
 

Gavin84w

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Mar 29, 2007
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554
Location
Australia
I just got that book out to refresh my memory of what that 659 looked like and seen the D57T's mommy. Forgot all about that unit, that type of ingenuity sure is impressive.

Prarie Ron who conceived the D57T, S18G,838 & 25M among others is a modern day Buster Peterson, no question. If he has a problem on a job he solves it with a new tool, not to much thinking like that around anymore and it will only become even less in time.

I have been to his workshop and what he churns out may not be pretty at times but it was never meant to be, it is turned out with a purpose in mind, exactly the same as thinking from years ago when the industry had many players.
 
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