JCB Skid Steer

[dave esterns]

reliability and specs should be right in line with everyone else. actually they wont have electric controls (till next year), so less to go wrong there. they are supposed to get significantly better fuel economy than anyone else. average cost is supposed to be 5% less than bobcat. i dont believe their skid steers have a name other than skid steer. jcbvision.com refers to their company outlook.

 

[digsalot]

Thanks dave,
requested a price quoit 2 weeks ago through there vision web site and still no response?

 

[maddog]

I can only comment on my mini jcb excavator, awsome machine, it never has let me down. I also just talked to a rep{yesterday} and it seems they are going to be bringing in a rather large inventory{upstate NY and Vermont} within the next couple of months. I do not see any issue's with the one arm "except" the use of OTT's. If their skid steer's are anything like their excavators then I say they get a :thumbsup from me

here are some claimed specs from JCB

jcb has 61% better visibilty then BC, 67% better then JD, 59% better then CAT
has 68% more cab space then BC, 57% more then JD, 61% more then CAT
has 16% better average fuel consumption then BC, 22% better then JD, 19% better then CAT
has 38% less zerks then BC, 38% less JD, and 53% less then CAT

this is just an overall and in IMO even if you don't like JCB it's good to have variety it makes which ever machine one choses work to improve their standards.

 

[maddog]

Digsalot; if you'd like I can give you the info for my rep, I'm sure he could find answers for you?

 

[digsalot]

Thanks maddog, I would like to have the info so I can make an informed choice!

 

[maddog]

Digsalot; sent you a PM

 

[JCBiron]

Looking into buying the 2011 260T any one checked them out demo or anything?

You are probably not going to find many dealers that have any units available for demo until March/April at the earliest. I have several units ordered and that is when they are supposed to start arriving. There may be some out there before that, but they will be sold-retail machines, so I doubt you would be able to demo in the dirt.

As for the machine itself, it is a complete departure from the old JCB skids, with the exception of the single arm.....Vastly improved from head to toe. I could go into details, but it would take forever to list all the improvements and changes.

The JCBVision website is simply a launch site for product info on the new skids. It isn't necessarily their "vision" for the company. Kind of like when Deere did the skid steer smackdown site....just not competitive stuff....

If you can't find someone to help you on a price, let me know and I can either give you an idea or put you in touch with someone close to you that could help.

 

[digsalot]

Thanks JCBiron,

If you could give me a ball park idea price wise I would really appriciate it.

PM me with your # I would like to speak with you about the JCB.

Thanks again.

 

[JCBiron]

PM sent digs...

 

[Constructchic]

You should try one- it would change your perception. Since it is unlikely that you will- you should read the evaluation the Construction Equipment Magazine just did with independent operators from the Local 150 training center outside of Chicago. They, like you, were skeptical of the mono-boom design. But once they tried it- they became believers and preferred the JCB skid.

Check it out http://www.constructionequipment.com/article/top-operators-can’t-defeat-jcb’s-powerboom

 

[dave esterns]

ah i made my way to the local jcb dealer to drive the new skid steer. my suspicions came to fruition. the skid steer is everything i expected it to be. it is as close to perfect as you could expect. i like the rugged rear end and how it is composed of all thick solid steel. i liked how the work lights are mounted on top of the cab in the rear, so they dont constantly get broken. i like how there are no stacked radiators anywhere. i like the comfy seat and the pilot controls. too bad they are doing away with those. at least it sounds like they are going to have a sensitivity dial for the eh controls. i like the big heavy boom with few grease zerks. i like the quiet, ergonomic, roomy, and high visibility cab. i like the clean simplicity of the design. im going to have them bring it out for a demo. i might have bobcat bring out an m demo, otherwise i dont see why i would even bother trying out new holland or deere, and there is no cat dealer around.

 

[JCBiron]

the skid steer is everything i expected it to be.

Glad to hear you were impressed, Dave. I am also happy to report that out of the 3 demo's I've done so far, we have faired very well. One customer has comitted to purchase, the other is undecided, and the third just got his demo yesterday, but so far is impressed. Also worth noting, I am demo-ing a 260T OROPS, only because it is all I have avaiable right now(most of these guys have T300's or 332's)....so I am very eager to get the 300/320T's out there.

My personal experience operating the new units:

- The cabs are everything they said they would be. Huge volume, exceptionally quiet, A/C works great, visibility is impressive....just all around comfort.
- Pushing power on this 260T is impressive. It will easily boil dirt/rock/sand/road mill over the back of the bucket if you want to.
- Controls are very responsive. Only complaint there is that I wish the single speed would have about 1 mph more speed.
- Very stable in fork applications too. I tested this unit with a 1 yd concrete barrier, which should weigh around 3K lbs.....lifted it, moved it, carried it....didn't even hardly know it was there. This impressed me, because I have seen what the Deere machines can do lifting-wise, and I think we can hang with them.
- Very stable on slopes too. On my first demo, one of the first things the guy did was start climbing the side of a pretty steep bank, probably about a 2-2.5 to 1. Then he turned sideways on it and drove around to the level part.....I was nervous just watching him, but he said the machine felt very planted.

All in all, I am more than happy with how the new machines have turned out. Obviously, we have our challenges ahead, but I am very encouraged at how the units are performing, and excited for the rest of the line to come out at the end of this year.

 

[dave esterns]

if i was a dealer i would simply drop off the jcb machine at random establishments even if they didnt ask me to. once people get in it you would have buyers. i would also be a rich dealer and buy 40 or 50 of these skid steers and line them up along the road. that would sell them more than anything. it provides the illusion that it is the machine to have. our local skid steer dealers do that, and it works. the one dealer just got in like 15 wheeled terex machines along with 10 tracked ones. and he has never sold one in his life (wheeled machine). the other dealer has 20 or so new new hollands sitting there. they sell about 80 a year i guess.

i have a few concerns with the jcb. how much does a new door cost once it is rusted out from being covered in manure all the time? or when u wedge it against something and spring it. how much does a door seal cost? cuz that would need to be replaced often in our conditions. how does the door work when you get liquid manure on it in below freezing conditions? i think rubber mudflap fenders would almost be a necessity for us.

so once we would get a jcb, i dont think we would go back. however, if i trade a jcb on a new jcb is it going to cost a lot more than if i was trading a bobcat in on a bobcat? i understand that a bobcat dealer would give no money on trade for a jcb, i just wonder what a trade would be worth at a jcb dealer.

 

[dave esterns]

got the jcb 260 out for a demo. i must say it is quite a sweet machine... if it said CAT on the side it would sell like a hot cake. after running the jcb, i cant see where any other brand could compete with it. this is my first time running pilots for a long period of time. they work pretty nice, but i dont like the fact that you have to have the engine running so fast to get the response out of it. i would prefer to run the engine at 1300 rpms when not working it. perhaps i will like e h better for that reason, and perhaps e h will work better in cold temps than pilot. i dont see how there would be less responsiveness with electric than fluid. honda always boasts of their hyperresponsive electric throttle system in their cars... maybe if i tell the dealer to set em as quick as they go i would be happy with it.

 

[KSSS]

The E/H across the board seems to be less resposive than pilots. That is subjective as I dont have any data to support that. So are you going to buy it?

 

[dave esterns]

buying this machine is tempting, because it is such a sweet ride just the way it is. it is HUGE compared to our s185. you need like 4 more feet to turn in an alley. the extra fuel cost and the extra 10-15k purchase price is hard to justify when we don't need a bigger machine. i flipped the cab up on it this morning, i could not believe how nice it was laid out. on the bobcat when you flip up the cab, it is jammed packed with stuff further than your arm can reach. the jcb hardly had anything under the cab. it was wide open with easy access to everything. i will be surprised if between jcb and volvo, they do not sell a lot of these machines.

 

[Digdeep]

i will be surprised if between jcb and volvo, they do not sell a lot of these machines.

Dave...it still boils down to the perceived brand value, the strength of the dealer network, product pricing, effective marketing and financing. This goes for both JCB, Volvo and all the other brands.

IMHO, US customers don't draw a strong association to either of these two brands as a real player in the compact equipment industry. I'm not saying it won't happen, but it is going to be a long, hard and expensive road. Do they companies want to spend the $$$$ to get there??? I give JCB a better chance than Volvo. Outside of the US, JCB is much stronger from the backhoe on up.

 

[dave esterns]

im not so convinced jcb does not have a name in the US. i did a nation wide search on craigslist for jcb, and there were 1300 listings. i did a search for komatsu, and there were 1800 listings. if you search for bobcat or cat you dont get an accurate representation of construction equipment because so many other items are associated with that name. make no mistakes, resale value is the only thing that would stop me from getting a jcb. but i have not been impressed with the resale value of a bobcat either, so i dont know if a jcb would be much worse.

 

[Digdeep]

im not so convinced jcb does not have a name in the US. i did a nation wide search on craigslist for jcb, and there were 1300 listings. i did a search for komatsu, and there were 1800 listings. if you search for bobcat or cat you dont get an accurate representation of construction equipment because so many other items are associated with that name. make no mistakes, resale value is the only thing that would stop me from getting a jcb. but i have not been impressed with the resale value of a bobcat either, so i dont know if a jcb would be much worse.

I wouldn't use Komatsu as a benchmark since they're pulling out of the US compact equipment market with their skid steers and CTLs. Proof even the world's #2 manufacturer of equipment doesn't make success in the US a given.

You're gonna be hard pressed to convince me that JCB has a strong name in the US, especially for skid steers considering that they were grouped with Hydra-mac, Hyundai, Thomas and Toyota as part of a total of around 600 skid steer units sold in North America out of over 38,000 sold that year. Volvo sold around 800 that year, and I give JCB a better chance of success in the US.

I'm not saying that it can't be done; only that it will be very expensive for them to make it happen. Time will tell if they have the stomach for it even though they are a private company that can practically spend money how they see fit without worry of shareholder backlash.

 

[KSSS]

im not so convinced jcb does not have a name in the US. i did a nation wide search on craigslist for jcb, and there were 1300 listings. i did a search for komatsu, and there were 1800 listings. if you search for bobcat or cat you dont get an accurate representation of construction equipment because so many other items are associated with that name. make no mistakes, resale value is the only thing that would stop me from getting a jcb. but i have not been impressed with the resale value of a bobcat either, so i dont know if a jcb would be much worse.

Dave your method of determining market penetration of a construction OEM is a "tad" flawed. JCB is working hard to press into the NA market but like DigDeep says that takes years and huge budgets and they are not there yet.

I am a big advocate of trade in value. However if you are keeping them to 8000 plus hours I am not sure how big of an issue resale is. No matter what color your not getting much on resale. You might be better off sitting down with the dealer of choice and find the sweet spot for trade in on a particular machine. Keeping them till they are worthless means starting over with every purchase. As these things keep getting more and more expensive, what used to be a rather trivial purchase has become a major one. Starting over on a 40-50k purchase hurts I dont care who you are, especially since there was a point in the life span of the skid steer where you could roll it into a new one for little money (relative to a new purchase). Once you have depreciated it out, it might actually be costing you money to keep it. Everyones mileage on that issue might be different, but it is something to look into.